The Gate

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I think it means, there is no such "image" that we carry as self, and we lead our entire life defending and protecting that self image. It is just accumulated concepts that we pick from the society and surroundings where we grow up and it gets passed on for generations. And I think this is what we call as conditioning.

What are you looking for at LU?
I understand these concepts on an intellectual level but I need some guidance. I don't know how to go from intellectual understanding to actually seeing this for myself. I can see that the belief in a separate self drives most of my thinking, reactions,and my emotions, and I want to look honestly at whether it is really there

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I want to see for myself if I can see clearly this separate self that I have been carrying around for so many years. I expect the guide to ask direct questions that make me look at my own experience instead of my ideas about it. I am ready to answer honestly

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have tried meditation for many years and realized that it is not working. Doing 20 mins of mediation everyday , does provide some peace momentarily but it does not last forever. And I wasted so many years thinking that 20 mins of daily meditation would lead me to libration. It was when I read Kapil Gupta's Atmamun and Jed McKenna's Spiritual Enlightment these books, I realized that I have wasted 40 yrs of life and now I dont know where to go from here.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

Good morning,

Sorry for the long wait. There are more seekers than guides.


My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

Thank you Stacy.

How will life change?

At the moment, I understand there is no "self", it is just stories and conditioning. Most of the time, I operate on autopilot, reacting and responding to things automatically based on my conditioned mind. And later, I realize that I give too much importance to how I am perceived by others. And I realized that, I accept discomfort and challenges simply to prioritize what others think of me, I want to rid myself of this conditioning. I want to live a life where I can make clear decisions based on what is actually good for me, rather than worrying about the perceptions of others.

How will you change?

There has been some change over the years, but it is very slow. In 2017, I first realized that this "self" is running the show. Slowly over the years, I have been able to observe its reactions. Over the past year, I have learned to catch myself while interacting with others, noticing whether I am being genuine or reacting out of my conditioning. I think that simply by observing, I can understand my trigger points, and that alone helps me break out of my conditioning, but the process is very slow.

What will be different?

These days, I am becoming too addicted to distractions like using my phone or watching youtube videos, and I realize it is because I don't want to sit with my thoughts. Watching something else feels better than facing my own mind, but I am worried that this habit is: 1) dulling my brain function, and 2) delaying the process of awakening. (I am not entirely sure what awakening is, my guess is that it means living completely without the "self".)

What is missing?

Peace. I am constantly worried that my actions will make me look stupid or embarrassed, so most of my life decisions are based solely on how I am perceived by society. I deeply feel that this cannot be the right way to live, and that I am missing out on actual life.

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

You can call me Amu. I'm currently in Toronto, so I'm on EST. However, I'll be travelling to India on October 18th, so from October 20th onward, I'll be on IST.

Hi Amu,

Your expectations are mostly reasonable.


So now what comes up when reading there's no "self " never has been and that it's all just a made up story?


Loving,

So now what comes up when reading there's no "self " never has been and that it's all just a made up story?

Yes, when I think of "self" , it is just made up story. And this is story is different with different people in my life.

Okay.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.



Loving,

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Yes, I understood the meaning of the Actual Experience.

Hi Stacy,

Im not quite sure if I understood this question,

So now what comes up when reading there's no "self " never has been and that it's all just a made up story?

I don't feel anything and there no thoughts either

I don't feel anything and there no thoughts either

That sounds very shut down. It will make this harder. But okay.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.



Loving,

So when I read "no-self", it's gives me a feeling of 2 dimensions, like I'm observing this mind. And there is a space between the two.

Okay, good.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.


Loving

Yes that's clear

Good. Now let's practice.


Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,