The Gate

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That our concept of “I” is a linguistic shorthand for all we experience of being alive. It’s a conceptual container for all we see, hear, touch, smell, taste, and feel. The self is a thought, a concept, a fiction. No separate witness (self) is necessary, and the belief of one can prolong suffering.

What are you looking for at LU?
Validation, clarity, community.
I feel I’ve achieved much of what is sought through the exercises and teachings, and it’s had quite an impact on me (I’m still a bit flabbergasted by the deeply affecting results). I naturally feel the need to talk with someone about it, someone who understands, and someone who might help me with questions I have, or might recognize and help me pinpoint where I might be on the journey.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect to communicate with someone who understands what I am experiencing by way of their own first hand experience. I expect to feel I’m part of a community of people who share a similar, though individually unique, life experience from
the practice of deep looking at reality.
I expect some validation (though I think this is an ego driven want) that I have made some progress, have achieved a goal, and have indeed arrived somewhere notable along the path to seeing beyond the Self.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
15 years of seeking. I’ve always been drawn to ‘spiritual’ figures, Herman Hesse, Alan Watts, Bo Lozoff, Richard Rohr, Thomas Merton, Eckhart Tolle, etc…
I studied yoga and Vedanta intensely for 2+ years, have partaken in numerous Santo Daime focused workshops with ayahuasca, and then dove deep into Christian mysticism over the last 4-5 years. Then, about 6 weeks ago, I read Dr. Christiane Michelberger’s book “How to See Through the Self-Illusion: An Instruction Manual” and everything changed. Almost instantly, I lost all desire to continue seeking whatever it was I was so desperately welling. That sudden and profound shift has left me a little stunned. Not in a bad way. But in an almost inexplicable way that has left me with a need for some clarity or validation regarding my current state.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

Hi Somerton,
…(is that what I should call you?)

I’m happy to be present here with you.

How have things been in the time since you answered these initial questions? Besides the seeking energy slipping away, have there been any other changes you have noticed?

What questions are alive right now?

In gratitude,
Becca

Hello Becca,

Thank you for the reply to my post.

(Yes, we can stick with Somerton for our conversations).

How have things been in the time since you answered these initial questions? Besides the seeking energy slipping away, have there been any other changes you have noticed?

There has been anticipation for this ‘slipping away’ to come creeping back over time, yet it doesn’t appear to be doing so. The shift that occurred last month feels as though it may be firmly rooted. There is increased trust that it did indeed happen. The non-stop seeking for an unnameable and elusive truth or perfection is simply . . . gone.

It’s a mysterious thing to deal with.
Having the central focus of one’s life, the thing nearly every free moment of time for 14 years was spent pursuing, quietly and unceremoniously extinguished is extraordinary. When exactly it happened can’t be pinpointed. It has been a great unburdening, yet there’s sentimentality for the familiarity of that burden. It’s like spiritual Stockholm Syndrome 

It feels strange to look at a wall of books, even the ones in the middle of being read when deep looking began and have no desire to continue reading them. A further pursuit of deep looking now occurs instead, as what has been experienced is likely a first step in a new journey. This deep looking was introduced after discovering the Buddhist concept of the 10 fetters, and from what is understood, only fetters 1 through 3 may have been broken. So, there is a ways to go.

Interestingly, the motivation to do other things has also slipped away. Specifically, going to the gym and doing morning hikes. Things that are almost undeniably ‘healthy’. There is intention to restart, yet there is a sense of peace and contentment with this slowing down. This contraction. There may have been an element of seeking as the motivation to do those activities. Being in nature can be seeking. Striving for a flexible and strong body can be seeking. This change in behavior has been especially surprising.

It’s accurate to say the time once spent reading, memorizing, and thinking is now mostly spent being aware of what is sensed, seen, heard, felt, tasted, etc… Life feels streamlined without the middleman, without a “I” interloper existing between sensation and what is sensed.

Moments of anxiousness, fear, and disappointment still arise, but much less than before and with very little staying power. These states or now either curiously welcomed for a lesson they have to teach or, if they’re particularly unpleasant, replaced with other more kind and loving images and thoughts – which is probably deflecting and not be the best way to handle thoughts, but sometimes a good night’s sleep takes priority over a mindfulness lesson at 3:30am 

Working backwards from Christiane Michelberger’s book and her mentioned influences led to exploring the LU book and forum and the www.simplytheseen.com website, which is proving a valuable resource for the new journey.

"What questions are alive right now"

Honestly, the more testimonies that are read and the more settling that occurs, the more questions also slip away.
I suppose there's wondering about the maintenance required of deep looking. Aside from remaining present and sensing all that is to be sensed, without labeling 'good or bad', how does one best maintain this? Or, is maintenance even required?

Thank you for taking the time to begin this conversation.
It is sincerely appreciated.

Be well.
Somerton.

Hello Somerton,

Who would maintain? :)

And what would be maintained?
Is there something here now that is fragile, fading, or needs effort to continue?

Having the central focus of one’s life, the thing nearly every free moment of time for 14 years was spent pursuing, quietly and unceremoniously extinguished is extraordinary. When exactly it happened can’t be pinpointed. It has been a great unburdening, yet there’s sentimentality for the familiarity of that burden.

Yes, this is quite normal, we call this next phase ‘falling’. There will be a stabilization that happens after a while (how long is different for everyone) and then Kevin’s website will come in handy for, as you say, the lessons that are simply there. :)

There may have been an element of seeking as the motivation to do those activities. Being in nature can be seeking. Striving for a flexible and strong body can be seeking. This change in behavior has been especially surprising.

Yes, everything can be seeking. And it (a walk in nature or a trip to the gym) can also just arise or not arise without a doer or an owner of it. This will also come in time.

Which brings us back to… what exactly would “maintaining” consist of?

Trying to produce a state?
Trying to hold onto a way of being?
Trying to prevent change?

In gratitude,
Becca

Hello Becca,

Who would maintain :)

Haha. Indeed. Who? :)
This is a beautiful question.
Remnants of "I" are exposed.

There is desire for achievement, progress, advancement, growth.
And there is reliance on arriving at milestones, like reaching higher rungs on a ladder, to validate the "I"; as if a reward, a new skill, has been obtained by the effort and time committed to seeking and "I" want to firmly hold on to that prize because of how it feels. A belief in scarcity and merit-based worthiness may be responsible for this, along with an attachment to the pleasing sensation of possessing, of thinking “I did it!”, or “I have it!”.

It recalls Gollum from Lord of the Rings, obsessed and fully driven by his desire to possess his precious treasure, the Ring. Discontent and restless without it. Protective and fearful with it.

Your question is understood. If there is no "I", there is nothing to do the possessing and maintaining.

Is there something here now that is fragile, fading, or needs effort to continue?

“Once it is seen, it cannot be unseen.”
This is what feels fragile and capable of fading. There is a fear (a thought) that unseeing will occur. There is a well-worn and long-practiced belief that “gains” are only retained through constant upkeep, through regular practice, effort and discipline (i.e., “maintenance”). So, advice on how to practice and maintain what was seemingly achieved is what was being sought. Haha. Look! More seeking :)

Perhaps this may be where the creation of ritual comes from.

An understanding that nothing was gained, no new skill, no new ability, but rather something was let go, released, or seen through is likely a more truthful way to view this. How does one maintain what has been let go?

And what would be maintained?

A state of mind. One that no longer reacts so strongly to, or even possesses, the desire to seek.
Yet, this seeking is a reaction to feeling dissatisfied with how things are. And, who or what is dissatisfied? That would be “me”  Ha!

Thank you for the questions, Becca.

I’m curious what is experienced in the body with
“pleasing sensation of possessing”
“feels fragile and capable of fading”
“something was let go, released”
“the desire to seek”
“feeling dissatisfied”

Underneath the words, taking each of these in turn, what is directly experienced? Not the thought interpretation, the actual sensations.

Hello Becca,

This is a profound exercise. Some are readily experienced, some rely on memory, and some are difficult to describe in purely sensory terms. Another pass and a deeper observing may need to happen, beyond this initial pass.

pleasing sensation of possessing”

A secure stillness in the core of the body, from heart to head. Feels stable.
The stillness in the core is surrounded by a delicate hum, a soft and even vibration of energy beneath the skin, the texture of wool. It feels like rest.

feels fragile and capable of fading”

The secure solidness of the center is gone. Heart area feels empty, vacuous, hollow.
The skin-level energy, the vibration, the hum, is amplified. Feels sharper, like the texture of gravel.
Vibrational texture of energy in the head has increased. Feels unsettling.

something was let go, released”

The inner workings of the body: beating of heart, flowing of blood, flowing of energy, breathing, feel less impeded, perhaps unimpeded. As if less work is being done to reach and extend throughout the body. More openness. Feels like a swirling, circulating glow of air and life-force. Yet, it also feels unfamiliar and foreign. As if a change for the better has been made, and that is understood intellectually, yet its unfamiliarity invites some hesitancy to fully surrender to it, as might happen with a more familiar sensation.

the desire to seek”

This one’s fascinating. It’s not clear and feels as though an unimaginable concept is being sensed. As if I was asked: “What does it feel like to desire to be a flagpole.” There’s a reliance on memory of what it used to feel like, yet that remembered state can’t viscerally be felt. I remember it having a feeling, but it’s no longer reachable. The current feeling is: The body feels divided into opposing halves, a dissonance of feelings on the left and right within the chest, neck, and head. One side is airy, dusty, light, glistening, sharp, curved and whirling (like tendrils of glitter suspended in liquid). Like internal electrified air. There is a subtle warmth on the skin. And the other side feels energetically solid yet malleable, still, and more uniform, like a masonry block of potential energy. (Wishing for a more sensory descriptive way to describe “energy” as it’s felt in the body). Subtle vibrancy? ‘Not’ stagnation? There is a slight tension in the chest and throat due, similar to sensations associated with confusion and uncertainty.
Feeling as though more imagination is being used here, and less actual sensing.

feeling dissatisfied”

Again, relying on recall of past experiences . . .
Restlessness. An urge. A tension, tightness, and mild sharpness surrounding the heart that reaches up into the throat. A volatile, deep, energetic vibrating. A curiosity in the head. Yet what does curiosity feel like? What does a need feel like? A thirst; yet it is not thirst of a dry throat, but rather a dry “I”, a parched “me” in need of liquid answers. It’s as if an equalization of atmospheres within the body and outside the body is needed. I may have to sit with this one more. I’m going way too far into interpretation land.

With gratitude,
Somerton.

Beautiful. Very good exploration.

Certainly try another pass and keep stepping away from interpretationland. In fact strip all the labels away.

Vibrational texture of energy in the head has increased. Feels unsettling.

Are these connected? Is ‘unsettling’ a thought? Does it happen after the sensation? Or is unsettling a sensation?

Take away label ‘head’ and look directly at where this energy increase is felt. Is there a boundary or just scattered sensations appearing?

What does a need feel like?

What indeed?

Is there ‘need’ without a thought of need? Is there ownership of need?

As if a change for the better has been made, and that is understood intellectually, yet its unfamiliarity invites some hesitancy to fully surrender to it, as might happen with a more familiar sensation

Does the sensation ask for surrender?
Or is that instruction coming from thought?

How is unfamiliar or familiar known? Foreign? Who decides which sensation is ‘foreign’?

There’s a reliance on memory of what it used to feel like, yet that remembered state can’t viscerally be felt. I remember it having a feeling, but it’s no longer reachable.

Yes. Work in this next round with whatever is here now.

Much love,
Becca

Hello Becca,

Just a quick reply to let you know work has been unusually time-consuming, and there's some research happening on this end to look further into how to describe sensations without using labels. Your request has thrown me for a bit of a loop :-)
All words are labels, are they not? I feel I've been given my first kōan.

Hoping to reply fully this weekend when there will be more time for observing.

Be well,
Somerton

No rush :)

Words are indeed labels.

Take your time this week just looking at what is in front of you for awhile. Observe how the mind is dividing and labelling every thing into objects and is embellishing
them with stories about what they are.

Give it some time…
Then, stop watching the objects as labelled objects. Just look at the seeing itself. Observe the pure process of seeing. This is direct experience. :)

Much love.

Hello Becca,

It's been a very busy work week. Long days and late nights. That said, it's fertile ground for observing likes and dislikes, desires and aversions, good and bad, and the labeling of moments as such. The scenario provided ample opportunity for stress, anger, frustration, and self-pity to arise. It was handled much better than in the past. My job is the primary scenario (possibly the only scenario) where frustration to the point of anger has arisen. But I digress . . .

What was experienced this week:

1) Simply experiencing what is happening, what is heard, seen, tasted, felt, etc... is anchoring itself as a new practice throughout each day, along with noticing if what is experienced is being labeled as "wanted" or "unwanted". This is followed by a look at what expectations were attached to the experience and how that lens of expectation prevents me from simply experiencing what is there in a clear way.

2) Speaking of my work frustrations: We are not obligated to react in any particular way to any particular scenario. Anger, for example, does not arise because this or that happened. Anger arises because "I" -- and every thought attached to "I" -- reacts to something with all the "I" baggage in tow. Reality presents a scenario counter to the expectations of the "I", the reality is then labeled as "unwanted" or "bad”. And somewhere in there, the "I" wants to be frustrated, or angry, or stressed, or noticed as being so. A big reaction offers the illusion of control and allowance, via a show of approval or disapproval:

_________________________________

reality: Oh, hi.

me: Hi?!? You’re not what I wanted!

reality: But I’m reality.

me: Fine!! But I don’t like it!! And, do you see how much I don’t like it!? Do you, world!?
Aaargh!! Do you see this, inner me?! I’m not going to allow this without a fight!! A big angry fight! You’re not
going to walk all over me, reality!!

reality: Uh . . . ok. Please don’t hurt yourself. And, I’ll be right here when you’re done.
As always.

_________________________________

“But sometimes we do things we don’t want to do.” (The Bible, Romans 7:15, expresses this surprisingly well).

Personally, I feel that if we’re doing it, we want to do it, or more often, we want what we think it will get us. A feeling of future security can drive us to do things we say we do not want to do in the moment.

"What is it that needs to be secure? And what does "secure" mean?" Will be the next questions I'll look at.

3) Yesterday, while sitting on my back patio, looking out at the beginnings of early spring wildflowers and budding bushes, with billowy white clouds, birds flying across the sky, butterflies and bees making their entrances and exits, the realization occurred that whatever is being experienced right now, this beautifully unique combination of sights, movements, sounds, temperature, and inner bodily state, will never exist again as it does in this moment. Be it a warm spring day with flowers and wildlife perfectly framed by sky and earth, or a sink full of dirty dishes. Every moment is unique and therefore fleeting. I can understand how one might live in a state of awe and perpetual discovery -- like a baby -- should this be the mindset they operate with. “This moment will never exist again" is a powerful motivator to pay attention, is it not?

Oh . . . I also watched a hawk fly across the sky between two rooftops. It appeared from behind one rooftop, soared across an expanse of sky, then disappeared behind a second rooftop. I felt that the hawk only existed while it was being seen. The moment it disappeared behind the second rooftop, it instantly became a memory, a thought, and any representation of it in my mind at that point was not the hawk. This created a pleasant and wondrous feeling.

This above mindset is being cultivated by allowing what is to be experienced, to simply be experienced as often as possible, sans the lens of expectation, memory, and labeling.

4) Looping back to my inability to put into words, to label, the bodily sensations I notice . . .
Unless you recommend otherwise, for the sake of this conversation, I feel no need to even try.
Sensations are no less experienced -- and experiences no less sensed? – by an absence of words. I see the value in a practice of allowing time and effort to closely and carefully observe, without labeling, to aid in selecting the most appropriate and symbolic words, as a poet would do. And yet . . . a finger pointing at the moon, and all that :-)

I will say, at this point, I’ve adopted a greater appreciation for the heart being the proverbial seat of all emotion. Regardless of what emotion I am experiencing: stress, impatience, happiness, pleasure, etc.. the center of the chest seems to be the core from which all emotional sensations originate and envelop, like a halo around the moon. Sometimes that chest space feels empty while the outer areas of my torso are rich with feeling. Other times, the feelings are concentrated in the chest. And sometimes, a varying mix. Yet the center is always there. Maybe because the heart reacts physically to changing emotional states.


Thank you for reading my words, Becca.
And thank you for taking the time to assist me.

Be well.
Somerton

ps: I neglected to address your questions from April 23rd. Interestingly, they feel more significant now than they did when you first presented them. Perhaps the wait was necessary :) I will look at them this week.

Great, yes, take a look at those questions, and here are some more reflections…

And somewhere in there, the "I" wants to be frustrated, or angry, or stressed, or noticed as being so.

Somewhere where? :)
Physically, in direct experience, where is the I who wants to be angry or stressed?

Personally, I feel that if we’re doing it, we want to do it, or more often, we want what we think it will get us. A feeling of future security can drive us to do things we say we do not want to do in the moment.

"What is it that needs to be secure? And what does "secure" mean?" Will be the next questions I'll look at.

Here’s another to look at:
where is future right now?
Can you find anything called “future” outside of a thought appearing now?

What is actually in danger that needs to be secure?

“This moment will never exist again" is a powerful motivator to pay attention, is it not?

I see where this is pointing, but am not wholly on board. To never exist again would be comparing it in thought to something else which is different. And would require one who pays attention…

What if it is just this? What is. In all its beauty.

Just like this the hawk. Here fully while here. Not needing to be held or grasped.

And yes of course words don’t do sensations justice. But it is another gate to explore… especially if there is a habit of mind, it may be quite foreign to pay attention to sensations and the senses. And often there is a lot stored there to be discovered…

Watch carefully next time something like stress or impatience appears. Does it actually come from that point in the chest?

Or does sensation appear in multiple places and then thought says “this is coming from the chest”?
Which comes first?

Without the words “chest,” “heart,” or “emotion”—
what is actually there? Is it one stable center?


If no thought labeled it could you call it a “center” at all?

Hello Becca,

Returning to your April 23rd questions . . .

A: Vibrational texture of energy in the head has increased. Feels unsettling.
Q: Are these connected?

They are connected by a judgment, a comparison to other sensory experiences, and a labeling.

Is ‘unsettling’ a thought?

Yes. It is a label, not direct experience.

Does it happen after the sensation? Or is unsettling a sensation?

After. As a label for the sensation.

Take away label ‘head’ and look directly at where this energy increase is felt. Is there a boundary or just scattered sensations appearing?

It is a varying cluster of sensations. It does not have a strictly defined boundary. It is blurry. However, the energy being sensed is indeed scattered sensations localized to a general area of the body. The area we call the head. There are also areas of the body in which these sensations are not.

ME: What does a need feel like?
YOU: What indeed?

Reflecting on a need vs a want.
One as necessary for survival vs the others as a creature comfort.
A need feels like an urge, an involuntary propulsion toward homeostasis.
A need feels like an urge to alter the current state of being.
A need feels like the energies of the body involuntarily unifying toward obtaining a singular objective. A reaction of the highest priority.

Is there ‘need’ without a thought of need?

Yes. Following the definition of a ‘need’ given above, I believe there can be spontaneous reactions brought about by bodily states and immediate environmental conditions -- can they be separated? -- that occur without thought. Instinctual survival or protective behaviors, for example. Yet, human needs are more often followed by, and have accompanying, thoughts.


That said, does a body “need” to survive, and/or be protected? I suppose, no. Every living thing dies – we just want to have control over when and how. So, perhaps ‘need’ is only a concept. And therefore, also a thought . . . ?

Is there ownership of need?

I believe there is an association, a coupling, of a need with a specific body. But is that “ownership”? As in, an exclusive possession of these energies and sensations?
Could these energies exist elsewhere? Would they exist as sensations without a body? Seems the answer is, no. So, I will say, yes. There is exclusive coupling of what I am calling ‘needs’ with a physical entity. And I will call that ownership.

ME: As if a change for the better has been made, and that is understood intellectually, yet its unfamiliarity invites some hesitancy to fully surrender to it, as might happen with a more familiar sensation

YOU: Does the sensation ask for surrender?

No. Surrendering is a learned expectation.

Or is that instruction coming from thought?

It is coming from a thought. It is a learned concept.

How is unfamiliar or familiar known? Foreign?

Unfamiliar and familiar are labels placed on experiences. An unfamiliar/foreign experience has few or no recognizable memories that align with what is being sensed. Familiar, is the opposite. What is being sensed can be matched with memories of similar sensations/experiences. Though, memories are not the current experience. Only a facsimile.

Who decides which sensation is ‘foreign’?

I feel this should be, “What” decides. No?
No one decides. Reactions happen. Decisions are not made. Reactions, once executed, are labeled “decisions”. “Foreign” is a label for the comparison of the present moment with memories that results in few or no similarities. The fewer similarities, the more “foreign” an experience is labeled as being.

Becca, have you ever felt, throughout your journey of awareness and understanding, that this can be exhausting? :)

Much gratitude for you.

Be well.
Somerton

Very good, Somerton. A lot seen here. And also some to work with. :)

There is exclusive coupling of what I am calling ‘needs’ with a physical entity.

Right now, in immediate experience, where is the “physical entity” apart from sensation + image + thought-label?
(Not the idea, memory, or anatomical knowledge of body.)

You have noticed that boundaries are blurry and “head” is conceptual overlay. Also that labels arrive afterward.

So now, without thought referring to “my body,” is there an owner of sensation anywhere?
Or only sensation appearing?

Does sensation itself claim ownership, or is that added afterward by thought?

A need feels like an urge to alter the current state of being.

Does the urge belong to someone?
Or is urge simply happening?

Becca, have you ever felt, throughout your journey of awareness and understanding, that this can be exhausting? :)

There is, here and observed in others processes, a physical aspect to this process. The body often wants more sleep. There is a sort of release that happens in the process of seeing that can be experienced as heaviness, weightedness. The body reorienting to being free :) For some, electrical energetics happen in parallel. Headaches can be common too.

On a psychological level, 'exhausting' is a story... one to be explored.

So what are you experiencing?

Becca