The Gate

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
The mind understands the concept, when i try to find and point the self i see that its not anywhere, its just the name 'I' that is created by the thoughts. But there is still this sense of 'me' remaining and the part that still gets 'me' confused is the free will part. Like there are still decisions to be made , who makes them ?

What are you looking for at LU?
To fully dissolve the illusion of 'I' . I always get some wierd excuse coming from the mind and i would like to have someone to talk about that so they can point me in the right direction or to say clear the illusion i am experiencing.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Some answers, not as direct answer to what am i because that cannot be put into words but the answers to what i am not. Like i said above the mind sometimes creates some really convincable illusions so i it would be amazing to have someone that can help me with pointing and some questions that comes up.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Some meditations here and there, alot of youtube videos on different non-duality teachings , but i understood that they all are just stories (methapors) of something that cant be put into words i guess, so the only way to know is to be directly aware of it which is what i am 'trying'. Not really trying since that would imply a doer but trying to let go i guess.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

Admin note for Nikoooo: You can only see answers in your thread when you’re logged in. Please check your thread regularly while logged in, as email notifications don’t always work.

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

Yes, we will deal with thoughts, sense of self, decisions & free will after we cover some more basic things.

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

Hey ! thanks for the reply , yes i would love for you to be my guide ! Appreciate it.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

Confirming that i have read the disclaimer.

How will life change?

Hmm i doubt the life itself will change but maybe how i perceive the life, i dont have any expectations really i just want to see the truth for what it is , without any expectations from the mind since i think i wont get my answer in 'thoughts' .

How will you change?

I guess some beliefs about the world and who am i will change , just the beliefs honestly, what else can even be changed .

What will be different?

Maybe less resistance to life , more clarity , less worrying about things that dont really matter .

What is missing?

I dont think anything is missing , i honestly think that there is maybe too much extra baggage on the mind that doesnt even have to be there , whats missing in my life is maybe peace , i have some kind of contractions in my head that i dont really understand , like some kind of stuck energy there that doesnt really let me just BE , whenever i try to just relax into emptiness i always get this feeling of some stuck energy in my head that just wont go away , no matter if i try to force it out , or let it be there , or ignore it , its always there and it just seems to be moving but never dissappearing , so yeah thats pretty wierd , also hard to explain .

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

You can call me Nico , i am in stockholm time zone .

Hi Nico,

Your expectations are pretty much reasonable.

We can look at those contractions. It probably means that there is a lie of some kind.

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.


Loving

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.

So what comes up is basically that 'i' understand that when i look at the world as the whole , there is no really separation , we are all in the same 'game' of life , i understand that my name and so on are just words , made up , but when i really think about it the minds always comes up with the answer that even if we are all in this same life and that the me , you and so on are just words , i am still this specific body and you are in the different body , no matter what i do i am always gonna be this body and that is the clear difference between me and you for example , even if the body ages and changes i am still this. Even if i drop all the labels and all words and just be , if i stand next to another body there is clear difference in those 2 bodies , so doesnt that makes us like separate ? Even if we are in the same 'game' (life) that clearly has no separation the 'characters' are still unique and different so that kinda confuses me.

Thank you.

doesnt that makes us like separate ?

Not all. I'll give you pointers about body illusions after we cover some basics about how to LOOK.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.



Loving,

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Clear about this , i will look from my direct experience and provide answers based on that , but sometimes questions arise that cant be seen in the direct experience right now for example when i compare to other people , i am in a room alone so if i were to ask something thats confusing me in regards of something thats not in front of me right this moment that means i kinda have to go into thoughts ? Or am i wrong. Like for example what i said earlier that i am this body and someone else is a different body , i am alone in a room when replying to you so if i were to ask something like that i kinda have to go into thoughts since i have no other people right now in my direct experience here, maybe i am getting this all wrong tho haha

First, my questions will be Blue. not your replies.

Yes we will ignore anything you have to go to thoughts about. Walk with me and you will see.

Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Alright so right now i am sitting at my computer replying to what you wrote to me .

I am seeing the computer in front of me and the desk and everything on it - seeing
Breathing is happening but not smelling since nothing close to me gives up any smell , neutral
I am feeling the sensations of my fingers typing on the keyboard , i also feel some sensation in my heart area at this current moment , some kind of energy or something. - Sensation

I am hearing the buttons on my keyboard being pressed by my fingers , i am also hearing some outdoors sounds like cars passing by - sound

As i am typing and feeling the sensation in my heart area of this kind of like stuck energy or something i am having thoughts about what that can be and why is it there - thoughts






Earlier today i was at the gym , i was sitting resting in the middle of the sets .

There was sensation of feeling my body weight against a gym bench while i was sitting. - sensation

There was hearing of the music and the people around me exercising - hearing

I was training shoulders and i always have issue with my left shoulder when i am training , so that kind of made me upset and i started thinking why is this happening to me , whats wrong with me , why cant i just train regularly , why does it always have to be something happening to my body , as if something was wrong with me , i got very upset because it felt as i am hurting myself by just trying to do a regular training. - Thoughts Also the emotion of anger came up which was caused by a sensation of this weird stuck energy in the shoulder area combined with the thoughts of that something is wrong with me.

I had a water bottle which i was drinking - tasting





Once i got home i was making food to eat , some sandwiches with chicken , i was seeing the food in front of me while i was making it. - seeing

I could smell the chicken when it came out of the oven. - Smelling

I could feel the warmt of it and the preassure on my fingers as i was touching and making the sandwiches.

I have to note that i am constantly feeling random sensations over my entire body that i cant explain , its been happening for the last 10 years or so and i just dont know what it is , its just like feeling of stuck energy , everywhere , sometimes in my head , sometimes in my stomach , sometimes heart , shoulder , anywhere , its gotten to the point where i really start to think that something is wrong with me while i am perfectly healthy and i know that i have absolutely no health conditions , i have not taken a single medicine in form of like pills for over 10 years , not drinking any sodas , not eating sugar , being very carefull about the stuff i eat , train regularly... I have no answer for this , nor any doctor or anyone could possibly answer this because i cant even explain it myself , just like some energy everywhere , i am wondering if during the life i projected this with my thoughts since as a kid i was a little bit overweight and had 'man boobs' and became very self conciouss of it , constantly tightening my body and muscles while walking and going anywhere in hopes of hiding it , so i am wondering if over the years of doing that i developed some kind of wierd suppresed emotion inside the body or something .. i am not really sure , sorry if this is kinda off the subject but honestly i feel the need to say this because its being such a huge thing in my life and messed me up so bad. And i felt its better to just say everything in case this is connected to the false identity of 'self' and maybe could help you while guiding me .

WAY TOO MUCH THINKING

None of the examples are that long. All that is required is a simple phrase about what is seen, heard, felt treated or touched.

That said, your Direct Experience labels are correct.

have to note

That is the lie feeling. Hold that thought. We're getting there.

Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving,

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

No difference at all, the only difference is adding the word ' i am' but it is still 100% the same thing neither feels more true.

2. What is here without labels?

Just the current moment being experienced + sensations of the energy in the right side of the head. Seeing my hands in front of me.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

The labels doesnt affect the direct experience happening right now, they just describe it.

Did you notice any differences in the body?

No










I didnt have a pen in my house right now and its late night so i couldnt go out and buy it anywhere so i just typed everything on my computer , i am gonna send you it just so you can see how much of the attention those sensations are taking.

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)



I am starting this exercise right now

I am sitting on a chair

I am hearing the cars go by through the open window.

I felt the urge to crack my back and i did so by raising the arms and spreading them backwards making the small 'crack' in my back which gave me a little sort of relief.

I am looking above my computer into the wall just trying to see what i am feeling right now , immediately a sensation of stuck energy appears in my right side of the head (right eye then inwards to the right ear , sensation is felt there.

I am now still looking just into the wall and trying to focus on this sensation that i am feeling in my head , when i breathe while focusing on this sensation on the breath out my head literally moves by itself and makes a very very small 'cracking' noise , just like when i cracked my back intentionally but this doesn't happen intentionaly , it happens by itself only when i focus on this 'stuck energy' in my head. Thought comes up that this is extremely wierd, this is all in direct experience , no imagination or fantasy.

I am still focusing on this sensation in my head while looking at the wall in front of me and the more i focus on it and the more this 'cracking' in my head happens i notice that it gets easier for me to breathe throught the right nostril which was most of the time a little blocked , having hard time breathing throught the right side of the nose.


I am now feeling the sensation in my stomach then it happens back in the head again , as i am again trying to focus on this sensation in my head it literally feels like something inside in my head is contracting back and forth as i am focusing on it

I am now looking at the wall in front of me again and i notice that i see the wall , but when i really look at it i see the 'blackness' behind it , as if the wall is not solid, kinda hard to explain but i see the wall but at the same time i see like the deep black void underneath the wall . Also while i was focusing on this 'void' and trying to put it into words for you the sensations in my head were completely gone , the moment i finished typing about it and started feeling the sensations again this energy in head came back up






Now the second 10 minutes of the exercise


Sitting on a chair

Same part in the head contracting as the breathing simply happens and noticing of the sensations happens.

Again just feeling the sensation of this stuck energy in the head , as i am focusing on this sensation i can feel it expanding to the back of the head.

Still feeling the sensation in the head , literally the entire right side of the head,brain is being contracted , as if a living organism is in there that i cant get out.

Hearing the cars drive by.

Contractions taking up 99% of the attention , nothing else even comes to my attention other than those contractions , its that intense

Slight 'buzzing' , ringing noise coming from the right ear as contractions are being focused on.

Noticing that the right side of the nose is stuck, again brings the attention to those contractions

Now a strong sensation behind my forehead area slightly above the eye level right in between the eyes, as i focus on it my face is literally going crazy , contracting , some face muscles moving on its own due to those contractions, extremely hard to understand with words

Deep feeling of being unconfortable , frustration coming up , still this sensation in the right side of the head , now when i focus on it and breathe i hear something in my stomach , like bubbles being released , and weirdly it happened in stomach while focusing on the head sensation i was feeling.



And also i just wanted to say thanks , thanks for using your time to help me out , i really really appreciate that !

Good. You're welcome.

but 1 & 4, there IS a. body Sensation.

Try this:

Here is how to distinguish truth from lies.


We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I."

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n6RnrkOD7 ... uBphAoK764


Loving

but 1 & 4, there IS a. body Sensation.

So i went through the stuff i wrote yesterday once again , and now i tried really focusing on what you said and when i read the stuff that i wrote starting with I AM , for example i am hearing the cars go by and i am sitting in a chair , when i read it the start of the sentence ' I am' gives a sensation in my stomach area, above the belly button , solar plexus area i think thats called.

While when i am reading just the 'hearing of cars go by' 'sitting on a chair' i dont get that sensation in the stomach area.

What is found?

So since i couldnt really think of any lie from the past for the sake of this experiment i just found some random lie ,
3+3 is 5. Immediately when i read the 5 i noticed the sensation in my solar plexus area, then once i changed the answer to the correct one (6) the feeling was very different , it was light feeling , peaceful.

Now it could be that mind is projecting those feeling by itself since i read what you wrote and knew what to expect but i wont overthink it , ill just look from the direct experience.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

I didnt really understand this part, in my experience light feeling in the stomach and peacefull feeling in the stomach is basically the same thing , just different labels for the same sensation i am feeling in the stomach.



Also just wanted to note that i am working almost every day so yeah sometimes i dont really have time to answer during the day but i try my best to be as active as i can.

Now you're getting it.

The point is that ONLY the 5 senses & thought arising are Direct Experience. Everything else is the content of thought, labels, illusions, including "self."

This is training your mind to see only what is really there, not stories & interpretation. Avoid labels. Why? "Self" is a label. Nothing more.

It's very good you found the lie feeling.

It's fine to just post before or after your workday.

So, try this now:

Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Google for a picture of an apple.



When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

Loving,

Are you still here?

The site was having trouble for a couple of days but I warned you that would happen. Just come back. It always will.

Loving,