Glimpses of non-separation

[ditti]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
From my training in Buddhist practices, I have come to understand the concept of no-self as the absence of an inherent, separate self that exists independently of the body, the mind, or the surrounding world. I therefore understand the self as a mental phenomenon that arises and changes in dependence on an ever-changing web of conditions.

What are you looking for at LU?
As a long-term seeker of insight into the nature of reality and perception, I became very intrigued when I heard about LU's method of direct pointing from fellow Buddhist practitioners. I am really drawn to the idea of deepening and enriching my insight practice—and hopefully gaining a glimpse of a felt, intuitive understanding of no-self—with the help of a guide. I suppose that is what I am looking for here.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I have only a few ideas about what the guided conversation might look like. I imagine meeting regularly for video calls (and/or conversing on the forum) and being invited by my guide to investigate and directly examine the absence of a self through various pointers. Rather than coming in with rigid expectations, I would like to bring myself fully into the process and trust it, allowing insight to unfold naturally without putting too much pressure on it.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have been practicing calm abiding (samatha) and insight (vipassana) meditation in different Buddhist contexts, both on and off retreat, for eight years. For most of that time, I have maintained a steady daily practice.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[Elad]

Hello Ditti (is that what you want to be called on this thread?),

I am a guide here. Are you ready to start?

[ditti]

Hi Elad,

Wonderful that you got in touch and that you are willing to be my guide. Yes, ready and excited to start :)

And yes, Ditti is the name I go by :)

Love,
Ditti

[Elad]

Hi Ditti,

Lovely, lets start!

So the he way this works is that I’ll give you questions and exercises to help you investigate whether there is a separate self. Your task is to look directly at your sensory experience in the here and now and report on your experience without input from memory, thinking, and imagination. Try to approach these exercises with “beginner’s mind,” setting aside everything you know about spiritual teachings, science, and philosophy. In other words, don't "think about" what I ask. Use all questions and exercises as a door to LOOK AT what is actually there and what is not.

Please read through “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQs of LU.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

When you reply to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. This will make our dialogue easier to follow. Please watch the video below to learn how to use the quote function.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ


The website goes down at times. To avoid losing your work, you may find it helpful to copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there, and then copy and paste them to your thread.

Let’s try to post daily, if we can. Of course, life happens, so if you need more time, just let me know. I’ll do so as well. If I don't seem to answer for more then 2 days, write to eladexplore1111@gmail.com - maybe there is some system error.

Let me know if you have any questions or anything coming up wanting attention, in relation to this message and the FAQ!

[ditti]

Hi Elad,

Wonderful, thank you for sharing all this info. I think all is clear for now. One thing that I want to bring up is that I will be on a silent retreat between 2-13 April without internet access. I was wondering how that would interfere with the guidance and whether it would therefore be more helpful to start the process after I am out of the retreat? Curious to hear your thoughts on this.

-Ditti

[Elad]

Hi Ditti,

I think it is fine to start, and we just see how it is when we come to the time of the retreat... It is also fine to wait, if you prefer.. What feels best?

[ditti]

Hi Elad,

Thank you for your response. I feel ready - let's start then! :)

-Ditti

[Elad]

Hey Ditti, great.. Lets start!

Read the following sentence many times:


There is no separate self, no one in control, there never has been and never will be!


Every time you read it, slow or quick, out loud or quietly internally, see what happens. Just pay attention to what happens.

After doing it many times, write me what was seen, felt, discovered.

[ditti]

Read the following sentence many times:


There is no separate self, no one in control, there never has been and never will be!


Every time you read it, slow or quick, out loud or quietly internally, see what happens. Just pay attention to what happens.

After doing it many times, write me what was seen, felt, discovered.

Hi Elad,

The experience was mostly very enjoyable. It started with a pleasant tingling in my back, a sense of wonder and relief. In the beginning there was a subtle sense of anxiety mixed in these as well. But that quieted, giving space for more relief, ease, and excitement. It felt like dropping a burden and opening up to the connectedness of life. The sense of absurdity of this universe and existence also came up. And the thought of what's the point of doing anything then. Not with a tone of despair of depression. Just as a genuine inquiry. And a sense of gratefulness about how lucky I am with my circumstances if all is just a matter of blind chance.

I also saw my experience of seeing as an impersonal process at times. Just happening in a way. After contemplating the sentence for like 30 minutes or so, a beautiful, vast sense of contentment has filled my experience. Permeate it almost. It felt so delicious that I didn't want it to end, didn't want to end the contemplation and go back to my daily to dos. And had the urge to laugh about how caught up I can get in the daily demands of life and how stressed I sometimes feel about them. Now I just felt a sense of ease and liberation around them.

Thank you for this prompt - I really enjoyed exploring it and relaxing into it.

Curious to see where your guidance takes me next :)

[Elad]

Beautiful Ditti, now look many times, in many situations if the following is true:

No matter if there are thoughts and sensations like the ones assoicated with the last contemplation, or thoughts and sensations associated with everyday life situations, or anything in between, there is no self controlling or choosing whatever thoughts and sensations are there now.


Write me what is observed and experienced.

[ditti]

now look many times, in many situations if the following is true:

No matter if there are thoughts and sensations like the ones assoicated with the last contemplation, or thoughts and sensations associated with everyday life situations, or anything in between, there is no self controlling or choosing whatever thoughts and sensations are there now.


Write me what is observed and experienced.

Hi Elad,

Yes, it was easy to see this statement as true. Sensations and thoughts just presenting themselves in my experience without there being anybody controlling the process or inviting them there. As if I was plugged into this world and my senses would just process what the world is presenting to them. No one in charge. It sometimes comes with a sense of liberation and ease, but sometimes disbelief creeps in; a wanting of preserving the identity, the ego. Not wanting to fully allow this experience and to completely let go.

[Elad]

Hi Ditti,

Yes, it was easy to see this statement as true. Sensations and thoughts just presenting themselves in my experience without there being anybody controlling the process or inviting them there. As if I was plugged into this world and my senses would just process what the world is presenting to them. No one in charge. It sometimes comes with a sense of liberation and ease,

Yes. And what is this "I" that is plugged in, can it be found as anything other then a word, a thought, belief referring to nothing in direct experience?

but sometimes disbelief creeps in; a wanting of preserving the identity, the ego. Not wanting to fully allow this experience and to completely let go

It is not unusual for there to be grief also when the illusion is seen for what it is. The dream can be comforting and exciting as well as limiting and causing suffering. Write more about the not wanting to allow, the not wanting to let go.... What ever comes to mind... And what feelings are associated with this resistance? Grief? Fear?

[ditti]

Yes. And what is this "I" that is plugged in, can it be found as anything other then a word, a thought, belief referring to nothing in direct experience?

Upon looking closely, I can't seem to be able to see the "I" in direct experience. Like trying to spot a very elusive forest animal. Or to catch a very slippery fish in the river with my bare hands. Something that has seemingly no substance yet I feel a hint of it in my experience.

There was this one instance where there was a very clear observation of how the label "I" gets attached to thoughts retroactively. There was a clear experience of first a thought being thought and only then the thought "I thought this" emerging. Fascinating. But the insight hasn't yet seemed to sink in.

Write more about the not wanting to allow, the not wanting to let go.... What ever comes to mind... And what feelings are associated with this resistance? Grief? Fear?

A few things have come to mind regarding this. First a fear of losing a sense of being anchored in life and just floating in it. And a fear of feeling lonely: of no longer belonging or being relatable for others. And also fense of grief at the prospect of potentially saying goodbye to a cherished self-identity.

At the same time there is also a lingering fear of not being able to fully realize the insight of no-self. What if the mind can't ever unsee the self?

[Elad]

Upon looking closely, I can't seem to be able to see the "I" in direct experience. Like trying to spot a very elusive forest animal. Or to catch a very slippery fish in the river with my bare hands. Something that has seemingly no substance yet I feel a hint of it in my experience.

Good. Now keep looking for this "hint of feeling". Where is it in the body? What is it really?

There was this one instance where there was a very clear observation of how the label "I" gets attached to thoughts retroactively. There was a clear experience of first a thought being thought and only then the thought "I thought this" emerging. Fascinating.

Nice.

But the insight hasn't yet seemed to sink in.

What in direct experience tells that?


Remember in this investigation you wanna let go of "thinking about" what has been realized or not. That is all story, intellectualizing, staying in story-land. Only here-now invesitgate.

A few things have come to mind regarding this. First a fear of losing a sense of being anchored in life and just floating in it. And a fear of feeling lonely: of no longer belonging or being relatable for others. And also fense of grief at the prospect of potentially saying goodbye to a cherished self-identity.

Now look what does all this fear actually point to in direct experience?


Look many times.

At the same time there is also a lingering fear of not being able to fully realize the insight of no-self. What if the mind can't ever unsee the self?

Notice this is going to intellectualizing, thinking about. That is a distraction. Doesn't mean it shouldn't happen. It happens when it happens. Just see it for what it is - a distraction from inquiry and presence, a smoke screen.

[Elad]

A few things have come to mind regarding this. First a fear of losing a sense of being anchored in life and just floating in it. And a fear of feeling lonely: of no longer belonging or being relatable for others. And also fense of grief at the prospect of potentially saying goodbye to a cherished self-identity.

An impulse came to answer this a little more. The experience here is that nothing of the real relationships, love, compassion, engagement, personality, interests "on the relative/conventional" level disappears. There is still a conventional self and conventional control. I.e. I can lift my hand and not yours, I know my name is Elad and not Ditti, and right now I want to drink a coffee, and I have no idea if you right now want to drink a coffee. It is just seen that there was never a real separate self behind any of it. So even though conventionally/relatively, I can open and close my hand to the rythm of 3-2-3 and not beat my heart in that rythm, ultimately also the control over the hand is not "me/mine/myself" in a separate sense, as in the ongoing thought fantasies. As Thich Nhat Hanh says: We are full of everything, except a separate self". Buddhist teaching on ultimate and relative truth describe this well. This process does not negate what is conventionally wholesome on level of psychology, relationships, ethics etc. If it seems to negate these, it is probably because of lostness in thoughts/belief about no self, rather then looking and insight. Beliefs about no self can lead to nihilism. I think I heard once the Buddha said that believing in no-self can be worse then believing in self. This is one reason it is so central to take on board that this is not about "thinking about" and not about belief, but about exploration of direct experience.