The Gate

Hello,

Time passed since I had a guide, actually I had tried two times seperated by years and last guide was like 3 years ago. “intellectually” I understand the self is just an added and unnecessary overlay over the “perceptions”.
In the last two trials I felt I won’t get it and we were doing the same things, same questions… I felt overwhelmed somehow and looked for the nearest exit.
I want to try again with no expectations.
I’m posting here in case a guide would be kind to help me see through the self once and for all. I don’t know If I will be able to walk the whole nine yards this time. Thank you in advance.


LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand that the ‘self’ is just a label, but the belief makes it seem as if it’s a real thing

What are you looking for at LU?
I’m mainly looking for away to reduce the psychological suffering. I reached a conclusion that, the cause of my suffering is nothing but this separate self.
I have tried to reach (awakening/ enlightenment / get rid of the self), but I’m starting to feel the search is what is keeping this “self” alive all these years

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I’m expecting to receive pointers, questions from my guide and i will try my best to contemplate those and answer from my own experience and to be totally honest
My guide will review my answers and ask followup questions till it becomes clear to me that the “self” isn’t real as I used to believe

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Seeking started since 1998, but from around 2009, it was mainly non-duality and it took a big portion of my time/effort /money. Books/ YouTube/ meditations/ initiations / courses …etc

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 9

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Hi,

what's your name?

[’m mainly looking for away to reduce the psychological suffering.

LU is not built for reducing suffering.. Might happen. Might not.

The Work of Byron Kstie (and other methods) IS.

www.thework.com

There is a free hotline, weekly telecon, book Loving What Is. Everything you need is there on the website.


I can guide you if you want but I don't think it is your best choice

Loving,

Hi Anastacia,

thank you for replying, I didn’t get an email notification for your reply, I just noticed it when I opened the LU, that’s why I took time to reply.

what's your name?

You can call me Sal

The Work of Byron Kstie (and other methods) IS.

www.thework.com

There is a free hotline, weekly telecon, book Loving What Is. Everything you need is there on the website.

I’m familiar with “the work” and not believing the thoughts, it doesn’t work permanently, it’s like a bandaid. Katie reached that point after extreme suffering and I believe she lost the self or part of it before it was easy to let go of her beliefs. That’s not the issue. The issue is clearly comes from the centre. It’s the same like Sedona method, Lester lost the self somehow along the way and it was easy to release.

I can guide you if you want but I don't think it is your best choice

If you want to give it a try, I would love your guidance, and I’m willing to follow. I also appreciate your effort.

Sincerely,

It does work permanently and it is not a band-aid. If suffering comes back it just means there are more thoughts to question.

It does work permanently and it is not a band-aid. If suffering comes back it just means there are more thoughts to question.

The problem is this “I” will get rid of a belief and acquire a new one, ad infinitum.
I have tried “the work” and at the beginning it works but I have noticed some beliefs are hidden, like gravity, and I only noticed their emotional component and some beliefs sneak back and reinserted themselves.
I have reached a conclusion after all this research. The cause of suffering is the “I”. That’s the “original sin”. The question is: is it true the “I” is unreal or is it just another belief. Because I have read some correspondence and I can tell that some of the guided individuals just saying “yeah I can see it’s not there”. I can tell they didn’t realize the no-self.
For me it’s definitely Real. I’m here very clear and the sense of me is always there whenever I look, but it’s not connected to any action and that’s confusing.

Sincerely,

The cause of suffering is believing our thoughts, including those based on these on a separate "self."

That is why questioning them to find the truth works permanently.

It is like finding out that Santa Claus is a man in a red suit. Once you know, you cannot go back.

Hi Anastacia,

Maybe you are right!
I will follow your advice. Byron Katie has an app called “the work”. Very nice app where you can write down your belief and the app will ask you the “questions” to dismantle the belief. I will work on that, at least one belief per day.
Thank you, I appreciate the advice

Sincerely,

Okay. Let's try some guiding.

Here is my usual introduction.

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

Hi Anastacia,

thank you

Let's try some guiding.

Here we go. Let’s do it!

How will life change?

I don’t know if life will change, but there is a hidden motive behind this exploration, which is a hope this “seeing” would bring a nice changes for me. That’s absurd, it seems the “me” is the one who wants to get rid of “me” to get something in return. I need a help from outside “me”, forced eviction by SWAT.

How will you change?

The hidden hope:
I will accept life as it it (loving what IS)
I will be less reactive and peaceful from inside.
I will have something special or I will be someone special.
I will be wise.
I will know the Truth by myself.
I will have mystical experiences.
The seeking would eventually stop (hard to believe).

What will be different?

There is no me, big DIFFERENCE!
When I was a child maybe 10 or 11, I was watching a cat outside the window of our old house and I was envying the cat, the cat seems peaceful. And an idea entered my mind at that time, I imagined myself disappearing, but I still can perceive. It’s like no-self “idea” but I didn’t have a name for it and no one told me about such things at that young age. I remember it was appealing and peaceful to imagine no-self.

What is missing?

It seems a lot of things are missing. I have unfulfilled desires. Failure that I wish to turn them to success. Things around me and all over the world, I wish to fix. Knowing what is after death… a lot.
I heard “there is nothing missing and it’s all perfect and whole”. This statement is strange. I can’t even imagine myself saying it and meaning it.

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

You can call me Sal. Time Zone: GMT +3 (three hours ahead of Greenwich Mean Time)

Sincerely,

Hi Sal

M6 name is Stacy & I'm in US Mountain Time.

“there is nothing missing and it’s all perfect and whole”. This statement is strange. I can’t even imagine myself saying it and meaning it.

That is definitely true and we will get you there.

The only way you can fail is by giving up. You may have noticed that.

Now what comes up when reading that there is no self, Never has been and never will be? It was all just made up story. There is no self to get rid of.

Self is just a thought and a contraction sensation in the body. Nothing else. Because there has never been a self ,nothing much will change. Just your thinking about it.

Loving,

Hi Stacy,

My name is Stacy & I'm in US Mountain Time.

Nice to meet you (in text at least)

The only way you can fail is by giving up. You may have noticed that.

Yeah. You are right! I have been guided in LU and I gave up twice. I’m not proud to mention this but it is true. Also in life in general, that’s true.

Now what comes up when reading that there is no self, Never has been and never will be?
It was all just made up story. There is no self to get rid of.

It remind me of “agent smith” from the matrix when he disappeared with all his multiple replicas and all his damages and what is left is a new matrix and as if he never existed.
What comes up when I entertain this idea of no-self is a mixture of disbelief and excitement.
How is that possible I never existed all these years?
How is it possible I’m living a lie everyday?
Maybe you got it wrong. Maybe there is a centre here. So I’m here and Stacy is out there. Who is experiencing my life if it has no centre?
I don’t think I have a fear associated with that. It just a disbelief. Something is wrong. If there is no-self, there is no one responsible, so there is no karma, no judgment day… a lot could collapse, worse than “agent smith’s collapse”.

Self is just a thought and a contraction sensation in the body. Nothing else. Because there has never been a self ,nothing much will change. Just your thinking about it.

Ok thought-> passed. It is clear thoughts come and go. But (and this is a big BUT), the sense of me is strong and can’t be dismissed as a mere contradiction nor thought. It is clear there is a subtle sense of me right here at the centre of my experience. I can’t just pretend it is not here and I can’t just ignore it because even if i ignore it, it won’t change the fact it is here.

Sincerely,

If there is no-self, there is no one responsible, so there is no karma, no judgment day… a lot could collapse, worse than “agent smith’s collapse”.

Correct.

I will never ask you to ignore or pretend. There is awareness. but don't confuse that with a "self." It is not

You're stuck in doubt. Before we move on. please watch these videos on doubt.

https://youtu.be/a_8N331jpA4?si=wHE8KmhO7n9uwLPp

Loving

Hi Stacy,

Ok I will watch that video

Sincerely,

2 more requests:

1. Stop insisting there's a "self." Talking and writing like that is not helping you.

2. Do not write and say, "I still can't see it." That won't help you and we will know when you do.

Deal?

1. Stop insisting there's a "self." Talking and writing like that is not helping you.

2. Do not write and say, "I still can't see it." That won't help you and we will know when you do.

Deal?

Deal! I can do that