The Gate

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
This means what it says... there is no separate "self'. We were all taught to create this self and guard it like it could get hurt. But liberation is the natural human state. Falling into it almost always requires good guidance. All you have to do is look honestly one time, see that self is not there and the clinging drops and can't be put back.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for liberated people to work with. I've been awake since 1990 and am looking for more effective ways to help people over the bridge. The inner looking that you describe is also my experience. It seems to be the most direct path. But I'm playing with the idea that preparation to take that moment of looking can best be done by fully embracing humanity's place in the natural world. We were all fully integrated earth-beings until civilization broke us apart. It seems better to look to indigenous wisdom, nature and deep-time than to delve into eastern religions (which really mess everyone up!).

I have this sense that the more liberated people come together the more we'll create a field in which people can gently swim their way out of the morass of spiritual misinformation. It's worth a try anyway, so I pursue conversations where ever I can find them.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
A lot of fun! Hopefully a working relationship. And, most hopefully of all, a new way to bring people I know into liberation.

I've attempted to work with people who are into Sufism, Buddhism, and Nonduality. I spend all my time trying to get a small crack into what they are choosing to believe than really getting to the point of waking up. I like your guy's simple direct approach. I'm really interested in talking with people who have woken through your work. That's fascinating.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
in the 1980's I was a sannyasin with Osho... Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh. I meditated a lot, and mostly just trusted his teaching. I woke up on the day he died. Since then I tried to work with people in the Dances of Universal Peace, Sufism, Buddhism, new-agey ism, and more.

I've been working some with fellow enlightened sannyasin Vishrant, and also with Susanne Marie.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

Hi Connie!

There are some group meetings out there. Here are a few to get you started.

Christiana Michelberger
https://findingawakening.com/about/

Vince Shubert

Weekly Free Meetup Times (Sydney, Australia time):
Saturday 9 pm,
Monday 6 am (for paid subscribers - recording only available to attendees)
Wednesday 4 pm (recorded and published on YouTube)
Friday 7 am (recording only available to attendees)
📍Check your local time: www.worldtimebuddy.com
⏱ Countdown timer for the next meeting on: www.wakingupwithvince.com (scroll down)
🧭 It’s always the same Zoom link; you can arrive late or leave early.


Todd & Pernille Lent Damore

Yes, we still have a monthly Inquiry Group that's free, and that they are welcome to join.

We also have our Discord community which is free too.

Write to:
unfetteredmindfulness@gmail.com

There are others that you can find.



If you would like to answer the checkpoint questions we offer here then you can be connected to other LU groups for people who are through the gate. Here they are in case she want to do that.



1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? (in 1990 in your case)

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Please answer succinctly.

Let me know if you have further questions. I'd be happy to help.

Loving,

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

There is not and never was. I have a hard time remembering what I used to think I was searching for, and what it's like to be lost that way.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

This is a fascinating question and the way I see it has changed dramatically in the past few years. I used to think that the illusion of separate self was a given. I thought it was like a veil over the eyes that obscured reality. But lately I've been finding great native and indigenous teachers who have made me realize that this separate self is a new thing that has only happened in these past few centuries of civilization.

Human Beings have been around for hundreds of thousands of years with our expansive consciousness. The majority of the time we have lived fully conscious within our world... because no other possibility is possible! We would have never survived if the old "cave men" were as confused about life as we are today. Once you expand the vision of humanity way back, and deeply embedded in the natural world the answers to this question become obvious.

Conquering cultures needed slaves... they needed people to be obedient to bosses and kings. So we were domesticated. We gave up freedom for convenience and safety. We gave up the responsibility of knowing for illusion. Once the sense of self was projected out of reality, and once we were separated from the land as a living participating being, we started believing stories of domination and separation. We've been spreading across the globe that for these centuries until almost everyone is lost.

This is why direct pointing works. It's impossible to work through the million stories of separation we have. But pointing directly to unity reveals the obvious.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

I've been doing this for a long time, since 1990. It feels normal. My past few days have been fun, however. I've been diving deep into how to use direct pointing and it's opening up a million possibilities.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? (in 1990 in your case)

I got tricked, yes. My teacher, Osho, said that all his sannyasins would be enlightened when he died. And then he died. I heard about his death many hours after his passing, so I naively assumed I was already enlightened... so I looked and saw nothing. I stepped back into myself and that was that.

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

My experience of other people is that they have made the decision that spiritual seeking will make them powerful, loved, and give them an ultimate escape from life. In my own experience decision was different. I decided I wanted to know what the true natural human being was like. That was an easier nut to crack.

Intention is also tricky. It's completely different for an awake person and a person clinging to sleep. For an awake person it's a natural human attribute that can be used in many ways. For an asleep person it's the jaw used to clinch tightly to fear.

For instance. My intention is that I will be a useful spiritual teacher to people. I never could figure out a tool that would work, however, and I was never willing to lie or pretend. So I've been stalled in how to work with folks.

Free Will. Asleep people don't have free will.. they are robots to their conditioning. Free will in the natural human is the ability to live within the environment with ease. For instance, at every moment I can decide if I am going to practice music or not. If I practice I both get better and maintain my skills. If I don't practice it all dwindles away.

Choice seems to be very limited for asleep people. They are mostly dragged along by their desires. For me choice is a ripe field of possibilities. I can choose to eat a lot of sugar, or not. And if I choose not then I can work gracefully through all the changes that brings. I can be a snot about it, or graceful.

Control is mostly a fiction. We have choices and intentions we can make in the moment, but then there is no control over how it fits into everything else. Back to sugar... I can choose to eat less sugar but I have little control over the effects that previous sugar consumption has done to my body.

Nothing makes things happen. Everything makes things happen.

I am totally responsible for moving as gracefully through life, and responsible for the mistakes I make while doing so.

To sum all that up... living is tricky even awake. There are no magic bullets.

6) Anything to add?

I have found a few direct pointing teachers nearby in Canada and am learning a lot from them. What I want is to work with awake people. Now that I'm really seeing how it works I'm using it in the things I do... Youtube videos, and Dances of Universal Peace retreats.

I have a lot to learn.

Hi,

Mostly accurate but let's look at a couple of things.

You answer to #2 Is the most unusual story I've ever heard. What we are looking for is either it develops in very early childhood or that thoughts cause illusion.


5. Decisions, control, free will, and intention do not exist.

Here is a pointer for that.

Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what ​ chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?


Please use the Quote function & answer this pointer.


You are responsible for nothing. Besides the fact that there is no you you can't control anything. See above.

I'm taking shortcuts but there are a few holes in the answers.

Loving

You answer to #2 Is the most unusual story I've ever heard. What we are looking for is either it develops in very early childhood or that thoughts cause illusion.

Right. I'm saying that this develops long before early childhood. Everything is totally interconnected and we do not live all by ourselves in our heads. What's happening right now, that we interpret as illusion in our heads, is a delusion of society itself. It's passed effectively down through the generations. It started with the Summarians, believe it or not!

The delusion of a separate self is given to us in childhood. It's not like we each mysteriously develop it. It's taught.

That's why direct pointing works so effectively. It's simply pointing at the true nature. What was there before the teachings of separation. Which is quite amazing.

Imagine if everyone spent their entire childhood being pointed at true reality instead of at illusion? Everything would be totally different. Knowing this is also why we have a responsibility to wake up.

And yes, we can't control outcomes, but we can be masters of our being. I decide whether or not I'm going to lift my hand.

As human beings we are highly responsible for our conscious participation. Native societies know how to speak fluently of the interconnectedness between all things. They all have stories about what happens when the people fall out of harmony, and ceremonies to maintain balance. It's the difference between being a participant in the world, instead of the dominant species that owns stuff.

One of the coolest things about native societies is the deep knowing that things must be earned. Like, honor and respect must be earned. This is something we can also experience by direct pointing.

What is that space between honor and trust?

:)

I decide whether or not I'm going to lift my hand.

Really? Look closely.

Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Loving,

Sorry but I've lost track of this conversation. I suddenly remembered about this and had to go look the link up again.

I'm not exactly sure what the conversation is about. I know who I am and don't need a thought or even not a thought to raise my hand. So I'm not sure what the purpose of this conversation is.

I'm looking for people to work with and to help find better ways to bring people into enlightenment. So I as wanting some sharing. I discovered some cool things to share.

Should I introduce myself better? Would that be useful?

:) Connie Zareen

Hi Connie

Welcome back.

Once we have clear answers to those checkpoint questions I share them with other guides who may have questions.

If they have questions I ask you to answer them. If they don't then we are finished here. That is the process

You answered the questions but some of your answers are not in alignment with reality.. For example, We do not decide when to raise our hand. So I gave you an exercise so you could practice looking closely at thst. We can't let you guide here at LU until you see clearly.
.
If you want to continue,, please pick up with the palms flipping exercise that I gave you., using the Quote Function & answering one question at a time.

Much love

Thursday 19th of March
MEETING WITH ILONA TODAY
 
Hello

The Shift in Perception Simplified

At the next Zoom meeting, I will share something that can help you see what this shift in perception actually is.

I’ve been exploring this with my private clients, and now I’d like to open it to you as well, and to those who follow my YouTube channel. It is very simple and easy to see visually. When it clicks, it becomes clear why working on problems doesn’t bring lasting peace, and how the shift happens in where you are looking from.

There is nothing mysterious about it. It is practical, direct, and available right here.

You are warmly invited to join the meeting. And if something comes up for you, you are welcome to bring your questions.


Seeing Through The Self Illusion

19th of March
90 min long

3 pm London
4 pm Paris
8 am San Francisco
11 am New York

Link to all monthly Zoom Meetings

https://us02web.zoom.us/j/9143364592?pw ... VEMHg2Zz09

All group meetings are free. Just come.

If you would like to donate, I would appreciate it. You can do that through PayPal here.

With love,

Ilona

My Email address is:

admin@ilonaciunaite.com
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