The Gate

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
"Self" as a concrete internal thing, but also self as some abstract process that I identify with or constrict around when defensiveness or accomplishment arise. As I've been doing inquiry around this I'm clear that I can't find a self. When I ask directly the answer is always that sense of awareness. And yet, I still constrict and attach.

What are you looking for at LU?
I'd like to work with a guide who can point out what I'm missing. Both in my process, but also more broadly. Working with someone who has gone through this and might see where I'm either not being as direct as I could be, or maybe just unconsciously avoiding something will be helpful.

I've spent the last couple weeks reading through the experiences on LU and I'm confident this is going to be both positive and helpful in my process.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
It's more of a hope than an expectation - I'll find benefit in working with any guide on this. I suppose the basics would be helpful. Someone who has a similar level of availablity as I do, will be honest and straight forward with me about what they're seeing and their feedback. Someone who has been through this. I've watched several of Vince's videos (I'm grateful to work with anyone), but noticed that he's no nosense, straight forward and has a seems to "get" the cognitive piece. That type of understanding cuold be beneficial, but I'm not sure how much it will really matter. I'm not sure if I've answered your question, but I'm happy to do any follow up on this.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I've been meditating on and off since t he mid 90s. About the same time I started to do Byron Katie's inquiry process. While I enjoy mediation, it doesn't feel targeted enough for me. I REALLY like inquiry, and I really like writing down what I'm inquiring about and what comes out of that. In the early 2000's, related to the inquiry process i was doing (I suspect), I had this sudden epiphany that I was projecting everything (not meaning the physical world), but anything or anyone that I assign meaning to. I project it, assign some type meaning, have an emotional response to that meaning that I've generated, and then sometimes blame the person. After doing more inquiry around this I realized I can't find any aspect of my life that doesn't involve this. Including any sense of identity. And yet ... I still constrict. Through the years I've been able to untangle some of this, inquiring around core beliefs and some of those deeper structures. I feel like I've reached a plateau around knowing what to do next. I do understand the process I just mentioned is not the same thing that we do here at Liberation Unleashed, but it somehow seems adjacent. Maybe it'll be a helpful platform for what comes next.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

The last few weeks I've been going through the Liberation Unleashed conversations and doing inquiry when questions feel sticky or interesting. A few things I've noticed:

* My thoughts are not connected to anyone or anything. They just seem to emerge. That was a surprise.

* Around the question of whether I'll lose control after awakening, I realized my thoughts aren't connected to a me, and thoughts can't control anything. So I'm guessing things will be just like they are now, except I'll have more clarity.

* That experience (sensation) I just had, what makes it an experience of "me"?

* Thoughts can't be owned, own things, or have experiences themselves. They're hanging out inside of awareness, not the other way around.

* On the edge of sleep - an idea emerged from the void and the self innocently latched onto it and presented it as its own. Thoughts were in slow motion and this was clear as day, and easy to see.

* Even when I really believe that I'm doing something to control a thought, I'm not. Something maybe happening, but it's not "me" who is doing it.

Hi,

I'm in Longmont, CO. Where are you?

I also do The Work of Byron Katie. We used to have an Aftercare group for that here, but the woman who ran it isn't guiding any more here.

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

Hi Stacy,

I would love it if you were my guide! I'm also in Longmont. And that's exciting, about the Byron Katie group. I was once in a group in Fort Collins, but it has been a minute. Such a powerful process.

You can call me Guy.

I'm going to look over your questions and reply tomorrow.

I can't wait to get started.

Guy

That's great, Guy. I'll watch for your answers.

Loving

How will life change?

I watched Ilona C.'s video and I know there may be an adjustment peroid. From other sources I've gathered there may be a time of peace, and then a time where things start to bubble up. I'm looking forward to experiencing this and I wonder what response I'll have. I know what it's like when a core belief lets go. That unraveling of all the connected structures can take some time and might be jolting initially. Is the experience of seeing the self for what it is, like this? In the past I've used the self as part of the response. Will this be different? Maybe some type of raw direct experience, and then something new? Not knowing is part of the draw.

How will you change?

I have this idea that my experience of resistance will be gone, or I'll experience it differently. I sometimes have a lowgrade sense of tranquility as I walk through life. I wonder if this will deepen or sharpen? I expect the self will still be there as a process, I'll be aware of it, but not so swayed by it.

I know this is a change but not sure what it'll be like. And I'm feeling open about it.

What will be different?

Other than what I've mentioned above I don't seem to have a prediction about that. I expect that mostly things will be the same, I'll just have a different understanding.

What is missing?

I've sat with this one for a bit. I don't see anything that's missing. Things are pretty peaceful internally and when they're not I have inquiry. I have time to reflect, balanced social connections, and meaningful work. I seem to be pretty content. I'm also open to learning more about this question as I experience this process.

Hi Stacy,
Thanks again for being my guide. Will you let me know if I've missed anything in my responses? The video on using the quote function was helpful!

I'm looking forward to this.

With gratitude,
Guy

Hi Guy,

Yes. Those 4 questions focus on expectations. Yours are pretty reasonable.

That unraveling of all the connected structures can take some time and might be jolting initially. Is the experience of seeing the self for what it is, like this?

Yes. That's likely.

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.


Loving,

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.

Sadness first. A feeling at my centerline from the neck down to the diaphram. Then some fear, less intense but there. As I settle into those two they're gone. Now a sticky thought - skepticism. But it's half hearted. Interesting.

Now rereading and looking again ... excitement.

Yes, that question checks for fears.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.



Loving,

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

I'm clear about the difference!

Thank you,

Guy

Good. Here's a practice:

Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,