The Gate

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? I understand the idea of "no-self" to be the knowledge that that is no self that is separate from everything else. I currently see myself as a separate being that is interacting with other people and objects that are separate from me, and LU is focused on helping people see through that false belief.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking to understand the nature of consciousness and self on a deeper level. I am hoping to be able to see through the illusion of a separate self and recognize the unity of experience. I would love the opportunity to work with a guide to see the truth of reality and be free from false beliefs. I want to get to the bottom of the question "Who am I?"

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect to be pointed to aspects of my direct experience that will help me see clearly what is really happening with reality. I understand the process to be more about direct experience and not about concepts or theories. I will answer questions that are asked of me completely honestly in order to reflect my current experience and receive further pointers to the truth, usually in the form of questions about what I am experiencing.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I've had a casual meditation practice for the past 6 years or so, which consisted of regular daily practice and a meditation retreat at the beginning of 2021, and another one at the end of 2024.
The past ~6 months have really ramped up in a big way, though. It’s come to the point now for the past few weeks that I've realized self-inquiry and understanding the nature of consciousness has become the most important thing in my life. Any time outside of work is dedicated to seated meditation and even throughout the day I try to do inquiry about my normal experience. I dedicate at least 3 hours most days to meditating and trying to do some form of self-inquiry by watching thoughts, asking "who am I?", and trying to find the "self" that is experiencing everything.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

Good morning,

Please read this:

https://www.liberationunleashed.com/res ... implified/

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

Hello Stacy! I am very excited to start this process. Thank you.

I have read all the linked articles, including the disclaimer.

I will do my best to post every day and keep you updated on times when I won’t be able to post. I understand and agree to all the other guidelines.

How will life change?

I am hoping that on the other end of this life will be more enjoyable in some sense. If I am understanding correctly though, I don’t think that life itself will actually change at all, but it will be more about a new perspective that I am experiencing life from. There will be more acceptance of what is, even though none of the external circumstances of my life will have changed.


How will you change?

I assume that there will be less internal resistance and conflict. More acceptance of myself, as well as my life circumstances. More clarity and presence. A new understanding and knowing that there is no ‘me’ (although I’m not entirely sure what that means). I’ve heard it described as a shift in perspective; going from the “doer”, to just a pure awareness of what is. I think there is potential for some personality or behavior changes, but I don’t think that I can control how or what those changes would be. More authenticity.


What will be different?

Nothing, but also everything(??) haha. In a way I can understand that I am already awareness, but I continually identify myself as the voice in the head or something separate from everything else, so I think that will go away. There will be less perceptual filters on my experience of life, so it’s more of a “removing” than an “adding” of anything. I think that is the main difference, having a felt experience and knowing that what I currently identify as is not real.


What is missing?

I haven’t felt that shift in identity. I don’t know if I have ever even experienced brief moments of clarity like some other people talk about. I still identify as a separate “doer” that is controlling my life and mainly lives in my head. So to answer the question, I feel like I am missing the truth? A realization of no-self? A feeling that I am experiencing life as it’s meant to be?

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

You can call me Braden. I am in the Central time zone (US)

Hi Braden

That is possibly the most reasonable set of expectations that I've read in my 7 years of doing this.

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

I think there might have been a error. I am seeing the same post as the first one you sent.

Sorry. I was having trouble with the site.

The next question is what comes up when reading there is no self, never has been, and never will be, that it was all just a story.

Loving,

No worries!

The next question is what comes up when reading there is no self, never has been, and never will be, that it was all just a story.

It feels like the question doesn't even really land. The inner voice/thoughts seem to just block even letting the question in. It almost feels as if the question is suggesting that I don't exist. My self feels like it is so obvious that it exists that it isn't even worth considering, or maybe even impossible to consider not having a self. I start to think that my existence in and of itself proves that I have a self. I am experiencing things right now and I have in the past, and it all happened to ME.
Lots of logical arguments and thoughts. Theres a sense of confusion as well. Really feels like an impossible idea.

self feels like it is so obvious that it exists that it isn't even worth considering, or maybe even impossible to consider not having a self.

Nice story.

To begin with, why are you here, if you're so certain there's a "self?"

Please watch this. :

https://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c?si=TZwuFEst-7Hsadpu

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.



Loving,

Nice story.

Thanks haha

To begin with, why are you here, if you're so certain there's a "self?”

I am here because I have a very strong desire for the truth. Even though my mind tells me that it is obvious I have a self, there is some underlying feeling that I need to check and really figure out what is going on. There’s this insatiable curiosity to figure out what is going on with my experience. I’ve noticed that this sense of self has been the source of many (if not most) of my struggles in life. I want to see through the illusion. I want to see things as they are instead of how I think they should be.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

I feel like this is going to be my biggest hurdle as I tend to be very intellectual and heady. When I look in my direct experience I can’t necessarily find anything that is a self, but my mind immediately tells me that I need to make sense of it, or that I am missing something and need to just keep looking and I will find a self because it is so obvious. There might be a little bit of fear that comes up too, but it feels very intellectual. There is fear around the idea of not having control over my experience, or not existing any more. This fear doesn’t feel emotional, its more logical.
Maybe related to all this, I have noticed moments where it seems very clear that I am some type of witness that is observing my experience. In those instances it feels like I am some sort of observer that is separate from my experiences and I can just witness it all with detachment. Sometimes this “witnessing” feels like a self.

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

If I am understanding correctly I should be trying to look for a self in my direct experience (seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting, smelling, thoughts) and in so doing I am not engaging with the content of my thoughts. There is not something to “get” necessarily. There is not an “answer” that will come in the form of a thought or belief. It’s not about convincing myself. It’s about seeing clearly what is in my actual experience without labelling it. Seeing if there really is a self, separate from any ideas. Please let me know if I have any of that wrong.

Good morning, Braden,

have a very strong desire for the truth

.
That can carry you.

insatiable curiosity to figure out what is going on with my experience.

The curiosity is great, but the figuring out is impossible. This cannot be figured out. Thinking prevents seeing.

The witness/observer won't go away, but it is not a "self."

Otherwise your understanding is good. Let's practice here.


Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Meditating
Hearing breath, simply = sound
Feeling my bottom in the chair, simply = sensation
Feeling pressure on ankles, simply = sensation
Hearing air conditioning, simply = sound
Seeing moving colors and shapes behind my eyelids, simply = image/color
Thinking of the instructions you gave me, simply = thought
Thinking of what you will reply, simply = thought
Feeling chest rise and fall, simply = sensation
Feeling tightness in throat, simply = sensation
Feeling tightness of clothing, simply = sensation
Feeling pressure in head, simply = sensation
Feeling tightness in forehead / eyebrows, simply = sensation
Hearing neck crack, simply = sound
Feeling tingle in back, simply = sensation
Feeling saliva in mouth, simply = sensation
Noticing the voice in my head labelling everything I’m experience, simply = thought
Deciding what other activities I can do this exercise with, simply = thought
Thinking about if I’m doing this right, simply = thought

Driving
Feeling the steering wheel in my hand, simply = sensation
Hearing the sound of tires on the road, simply = sound
Feeling of the gear shifter on my hand, simply = sensation
Seeing the road and the cars, simply = image/color
Feeling my feet in my shoes and pressing on the gas, simply = sensation
Hearing the sound of my voice, simply = sound
Feeling of headrest on the back of my head, simply = sensation
Tasting left over food from lunch, simply = taste
Hearing other cars passing, simply = sound
Feeling chapped lips, simply = sensation
Seeing the trucks on the bridge, simply = image/color
Seeing the grass, simply = image/color
Seeing the traffic signs, simply = image/color
Feeling the sun on my arm, simply = sensation
Feeling the sun on my legs, simply = sensation
Feeling of my butt sitting in the chair, simply = sensation
Hearing cars passing, simply = sound
Smelling my car, simply = smell
Hearing the engine revving, simply = sound
Thinking about whether this is unsafe to be doing while driving, simply = thought
…
Hearing my car drive over cracks in the road, simply = sound
Hearing the sounds different types of pavement make, simply = sound
Feeling of hair on the back of my head touching the headrest, simply = sensation
Feeling of seatbelt across my body and lap, simply = sensation
Feeling of belt pressing into waist, simply = sensation
Feeling the pressure that I am gripping the steering wheel with, simply = sensation
Feeling of swallowing, simply = sensation
Feeling of strain in cheeks, simply = sensation


Eating dinner
Hearing the microwave going off, simply = sound
Feeling my feet walking on the floor, simply = sensation
Touching the microwave handle, simply = sensation
Hearing the microwave opening and unlocking, simply = sound
Feeling the warmth of the plate, simply = sensation
Seeing the salsa in the fridge, simply = image/color
Grabbing the salsa out of the fridge, simply = sensation
Smelling salsa and my burritos, simply = smell
Hearing the plate being put on the table, simply = sound
Seeing my fork, simply = image/color
Picking up the fork, simply = sensation
Feeling of tension in my head, simply = sensation
Thinking that I'm doing good at this exercise, simply = thought
Hearing my air conditioning triggering on, simply = sound
Hearing my fork cutting through the burrito, simply = sound
Feeling pressure and resistance as I cut through the burrito, simply =sensation
Feeling my fork hitting the plate, simply = sensation
Tasting salsa, simply = taste
Feeling the fork on my tongue, simply = sensation
Feeling my teeth scraping the fork a little bit, simply = sensation


Sorry if that is overkill for each of the experiences. There is a lot more that I could have written for all of them, but I’m not sure if it is needed(?) Please let me know if I am writing too much for these replies.

Some notes:
- Experiences that I was labeling started to get subtler as time went on. This was really obvious when I was driving and around 10 minutes into doing this exercise I started noticing things that are usually just in the background / not normally noticed (like the feeling of the seatbelt)
- I don’t know if it is “cheating” but I did the labeling out loud for both the driving and dinner. I voice recorded myself and just had a constant stream of saying everything that I noticed. I was doing the same thing in my head for the meditation so I assumed that it would be fine out loud. Speaking out loud seemed to quiet thought down, so thats why there aren't a lot of thoughts noticed during the driving and dinner experiences
- I found labeling very hard to do during work since I have a lot of meetings, and my work involves a lot of intense problem solving. It feels like it takes extra effort/concentration to label everything so the majority of my day was getting lost following trains of thought for work, or focusing on conversations & meetings I was having without paying attention to labeling or any sensations outside of thought. I assume that I could probably get better at this, but it's tough.

Also, I am realizing that I probably did the labelling wrong. When I was doing it out loud I would say, for example "Feeling steering wheel in my hand" but I think the exercise was to notice that I was feeling the steering wheel and then label it "Sensation", correct? Ideally I would probably be doing this mentally.

I just finished with labelling meditation again tonight, this time doing what I think is the correct technique. While meditating with my eyes closed it narrowed down most of my experience to mainly just "sensation", "sounds", and a few "thoughts" here and there (there were also a couple "image" labels, but not more than a few). I kept up the constant stream of labelling in my head and thoughts seemed to be very still. When I stopped the labelling I noticed I could stay with direct experience without labelling for a bit, but then thoughts would come back and I would get caught up in them easier, so I would go back to labelling.

Again, sorry if this is too much. I can keep future replies shorter if needed.

Hi,

You've got it.

There is no goal to do this in your head 24/7, But it is good that you are noticing direct experience.

It's not about longer or shorter answers. Long answers tend to happen when you're thinking too much. Just keep it simple and stick with direct experience.

I Here is the next step.

Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

At first glance they both feel true, but I think the second was more true simply because of the fact that it was more simplified. The first 10 minutes felt like there was a concept of “I” that was getting added on, with concepts of control and someone “doing” the actions. The second 10 minutes felt like the “I” concept was removed and there was still experience happening, so it points to the conclusion that the “I” was just an added concept that isn’t necessary. There was a calm feeling of peace with the second time.

2. What is here without labels?

Just experience. Direct experience (5 senses + thought). In a strange way, things feel like they are just happening.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Labelling feels like I am creating a separation between me and the thing that is being labelled. It feels like my mind is trying to make sense of my experience and analyze it. Its almost like I can feel the conceptual filters being added on as soon as I try to label what is happening.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

I noticed tension in my jaw, throat, forehead and head during both. The difference was when I got rid of the “I” concept I was able to have more acceptance and just observe the tension, which ironically made relaxing and letting go of it easier. Overall, there was more relaxation in my body the second time, and I started to feel sleepy. There was movement and “antsy” energy that seemed to disappear when I did the exercise without the "I"

Hi

Yes, mostly good. The way you explained the effect of labels is not bad, but wasn't quite what we're getting at.


Label-Reality Correlation

There is a belief that labels have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’. But there isn’t. Just like it is a generally accepted belief that labels like ‘good’ and ‘bad’ are inherent characteristics of ‘things’. But actually, they are not.

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN' , what is the actual experience?

Is the color red ‘experienced’, or is the color green ‘experienced’ as the label suggests?

Does the label ‘GREEN’ have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’? Or does the label suggest something else other than what is here now (red colour)?

Is 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’ , is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no affect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

Let me know what is SEEN.

Loving