End of seeking

[Minouska]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That the self is an illusion created from thoughts, feelings, sensations, a label attached to reality creating needless suffering

What are you looking for at LU?
A guide to help me get beyond an intellectual grasp of no self. From reading Gateless Gatecrashers I can see that the shift is subtle but profound and definitive. I can tell there is something still wanting to cling to an idea of self (though writing this it occurs that the clinging is also just another thought...). I feel like there is a final push I need to step through the gate.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect to be asked questions and to receive pointing and feedback on where I'm getting in my own way. I expect it to be direct and single focused with the one aim of bringing recognition to the reality that there is no I.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have been seeking for most of my life. A lot of this has been more psychological- trying to understand my suffering - but also through Buddhism and non duality, "trying" to move beyond self - tho still with the idea of "getting somewhere". I have moments of recognising there is no I, but then identification returns like a habit and also I think through fear of losing something if I stop clinging to it

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 9

[Anastacia42]

Good morning

Sounds like you've got the theory, let's get the practice. remembering we cannot force it. We can only create the circumstances in which seeing is likely.

"Enlightenment is an accident. Meditation makes us accident prone."

Sunryu Suzuki

Our pointers here are meditations.

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

[Minouska]

Hi Stacy

Thanks for contacting me. Sorry it has taken me a while to reply. I was finding the technology and understanding the instructions a little confusing and daunting. When you say I need to post on the forum every day, do you mean in reply to a question you’ve asked? Is this conversation with you ‘my thread’?

I can confirm that I’ve read the disclaimer.

How will life change?

I don’t expect life will change much at all outwardly. I could imagine that there may be a lessening of certain patterns of behaviour driven by identification with particular beliefs and ideas about myself as a self. I would like to think there might be more at ease or acceptance of the way life is rather than often resisting it, or at least that the part of me resisting will be seen through and have less power in my life.

How will you change?

Again, I don’t imagine changing in any particularly noticeable way. I admit to hoping I will feel less of the suffering that comes from identification and more peace and stillness.

What will be different?

I don’t think I have anything to add to what I’ve already said. In a way nothing will be different and everything is different as the Self I take myself to be will not be imagined to be running my life.

What is missing

?

Self thinks many things are missing. Conceptually I believe that nothing is missing. Rather, the identification with a self creates a sense of things missing. However, Although I believe this intellectually, it isn’t my lived experience.

What would you like for me to call you

Please call me Michelle

What time zone are you in?

I am in the UK - British Summer Time

I’m hoping I’m doing this right!

[Anastacia42]

Good. Michelle.

When you say I need to post on the forum every day, do you mean in reply to a question you’ve asked? Is this conversation with you ‘my thread’?

Usually, you'll be relying to pointers.

Yes, in this thread.

Next question:

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.


Loving,

[Minouska]

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed?

It’s like there are two of me. The quiet voice in the background says, well of course. And when there are no demands on me or nothing I need to do, it can feel true. But the much louder, dominant voice doesn’t care or feels angry about it. It feels trapped in its own story and unable to break free. When there are very loud and distracting thoughts, emotions and sensations, it feels almost impossible not to experience them as ‘me’ and then the mind starts spinning looking for fixes, cures etc.

[Anastacia42]

Good. Thank you. That question checks for fears. Fears & expectations are the only things that can prevent your seeing clearly there's no "self."

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Content of thought is made up.

The Sensation is probably a contraction, tightness or heaviness indicating a lie. We will get to that shortly.

Loving,

[Minouska]

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Yes, I'm clear about this

[Anastacia42]

Very good. Now practice that here:

Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[Minouska]

Okay thanks Stacy. I am away for a couple of days so might not be able to post but will practice this and come back with my experience soon.

[Anastacia42]

Thank you for letting me know.

See you when you get back.

Loving,

[Minouska]

I have been finding the labelling exercise much more difficult than I thought. What I experience is a whole jumble of things all interacting simultaneously and all tangled up with thoughts. I could provide lists that look like yours but they wouldn't accurately reflect my experience. For example, eating a dessert:

Sights - I am aware of the colour and shape of the dessert but also everything else in my field of vision
Taste - I taste the flavour which immediately leads to a jumble of thoughts
Sounds - I hear the clink of my spoon and the background ticking of the clock
Smell - a slight smell of strawberry
Touch I'm aware of the smooth cold touch of the spoon in.my hand
Thoughts are rushing in a piling up and interesting with everything
There is a strong sense of an I at the center of everything, almost like noticing these things brings the I into stronger focus.

Am I doing something wrong?

[Minouska]

I have been finding the labelling exercise much more difficult than I thought. What I experience is a whole jumble of things all interacting simultaneously and all tangled up with thoughts. I could provide lists that look like yours but they wouldn't accurately reflect my experience. For example, eating a dessert:

Sights - I am aware of the colour and shape of the dessert but also everything else in my field of vision
Taste - I taste the flavour which immediately leads to a jumble of thoughts
Sounds - I hear the clink of my spoon and the background ticking of the clock
Smell - a slight smell of strawberry
Touch I'm aware of the smooth cold touch of the spoon in.my hand
Thoughts are rushing in a piling up and interacting with everything
There is a strong sense of an I at the center of everything, almost like noticing these things brings the I into stronger focus. The I that sees, tastes, hears all tied together with thoughts and bodily sensations.

Am I doing something wrong?

[Anastacia42]

Am I doing something wrong?

You're doing it backwards.

Name the situation.

Eating a dessert.

Tasting the dessert simply equals Taste.
Seeing dessert simply equals image.

Do NOT post sentences begi nning with the "I" illusion.

ONE tiny bit at a time. Our made up label & story on the left, only Direct Experience on the right.

You're WAY overthinking this.

Ignore other thoughts completely & focus on the very simple pieces.

Try again, please. Simple, tiny pieces of the experience.

Loving,

[Minouska]

Thanks for clarifying. I think I understand.

So situation is - picking up a marker pen
Seeing - I notice the difference between just seeing its shape and colour and then thoughts wanting to label it and if those are separated there is simply seeing and simply thoughts
Feeling the shape and texture of the pen = simply sensation
Tapping the pen with my nail = simply sound and simply sensation

I recognise that all of this can be experienced from an "I" perspective, but that its also possible to unhook from the I perspective and just experience the raw data. It just feels less familiar. Touch feels a little harder to separate from a sense of "me", "MY" hand is holding the pen

Situation - listening to the sounds of my clock
Hearing is happening
Thoughts about the clock are arising

Situation - drinking a glass of water

Touching the cold glass - sensation
Drinking the water - tasting and sensation and hearing
thoughts about the water and the task - simply thoughts arising

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

Closer.

A lot of them are right. but some are still backwards. please fix those.

Backwards
:
Seeing - I notice the difference between just seeing its shape and colour and then thoughts wanting to label it and if those are separated there is simply seeing and simply thoughts
Feeling the shape and texture of the pen = simply sensation

Hearing is happening
Thoughts about the clock are arising


Correct:
Tapping the pen with my nail = simply sound and simply sensation

Touching the cold glass - sensation
Drinking the water - tasting and sensation and hearing
thoughts about the water and the task - simply thoughts arising

Loving,