Male from Finland

[graceabounds]

Good morning!

There was couple negative encounters at work that would have started persisting thought patterns and feelings before but this time when I started feeling and examining them, they went away.

Beautiful! This is what happens when sensations, feelings and thoughts are isolated and investigated directly. As thoughts and emotions stop fueling each other the mechanism which causes them to seem self-referential breaks down.

Fatigue is actually a bit of a gift in this practice since reactivity is generally heightened. So continue to sit with the sensations. If something slips out before you can examine it or a more heightened thoughtstorm is brewing, sit with the question:
Is this reaction personal?

Early on in this conversation we explored seeing in direct experience. Here is an exercise to play with hearing. If possible, work with it throughout the day in different environments

Notice the sounds around you. Avoid labeling them—just experience the sound itself. Experiment with eyes open and eyes closed.
Where is sound located?
Does hearing require a hearer?
Anything you noticed or discovered practicing this exercise?

Love,
Becca

[Tuoli]

Good morning!

If something slips out before you can examine it or a more heightened thoughtstorm is brewing, sit with the question:
Is this reaction personal?

A: It wasn't. It was more like automatic responce to being scorned about nothing.

Where is sound located?
A: To mindbody's survival it's paramount to sence the direction and distance of a sound. It happends automatically. When looking the sound it happens in no space.

Does hearing require a hearer?
A: No, it's automatic.

Anything you noticed or discovered practicing this exercise?
A: Sounds are experienced in same space where all experience is experienced.

[graceabounds]

Hello,

Sounds are experienced in same space where all experience is experienced.

Yes. Separating sight, hearing, smell etc is artificial, and temporary. It’s like isolating muscle groups at the gym in order to strengthen the body as a whole.

Does thought make any contact with other kinds of sense experience, such as sounds or sensations — or are they totally separate from each other?

Much love,
Becca

[Tuoli]

Hello,

Does thought make any contact with other kinds of sense experience, such as sounds or sensations — or are they totally separate from each other?

Context comes naturally when sounds are heard and sensations are felt. Like what is making the sound and where, or what is making this certain touch sensation like clothes. However when looked them without related thoughts, they exist without narrative thoughts so they are unrelated. But thoughts can generate emotions and strong emotions can create sensations in the body so this seems to be one of those yes and no answers...

[graceabounds]

Hello,

Nice looking!
We are not aiming to eliminate the context, just slow the process of labeling down to notice how it all fits together.

But thoughts can generate emotions and strong emotions can create sensations in the body

Does emotion arise without a self-referential thought?

Are the sensations that are noticed alongside a strong emotion inherently ‘good’ or ‘bad’ without a self referential thought label?

With love,
Becca

[graceabounds]

PS. Please investigate the above questions in real time today, looking into whatever arises.
:)

[Tuoli]

Hi,

Does emotion arise without a self-referential thought?
A: I was actually pondering this yesterday... It can arise as a reaction to situation but can just last for a short period without self-referential thoughts keeping it up.

Are the sensations that are noticed alongside a strong emotion inherently ‘good’ or ‘bad’ without a self referential thought label?
A: No, they tend to be pressure or tightening type of experiences.

[graceabounds]

Great!

Does emotion arise without a self-referential thought?
A: I was actually pondering this yesterday... It can arise as a reaction to situation but can just last for a short period without self-referential thoughts keeping it up.

Yes, it will dissolve and disappear quickly. If it does not, that is a big sign to “LOOK HERE” for the self-referring thought keeping it alive. Sometimes this is not obvious, it can be at the level of a belief: a thought or idea that has gone on unexamined for a long time, often since childhood. The current thought points to another thought points to another thought… down to a belief, which is also just a thought. Examples would be “there isn’t enough time” or “don’t show feelings”.

Does anything come up upon reading this or during the course of the day that may be presenting itself for looking?

Much love,
Becca

[Tuoli]

Hi,

Does anything come up upon reading this or during the course of the day that may be presenting itself for looking?

Yes, today actually there was lot of thoughts. This feels a bit too personal but I'm going to write about it anyway... These thoughts about common-law wife's behaviour leaded to belief that I would be more happy living by myself. It's a thought ofcourse.

Another thought against this thought was that living with her obsessive-compulsive personality disorder is great motivator for looking and waking up,- and also offers lots of looking material!

One thought against this thought was possibility of telepathy or being a bit empath: Early days I could instantly feel when she got angry even if she was in another room. It felt like black hole pulling me inside body, crushing and absorbing into itself... or like falling down the drain. I could most of the time quickly correct a bit of what I said before it resulted in hours of angry emotional behavior against me. I can feel same type of sensations with strangers too. Like sensing the mood of the room.

So one thought was also how her being around is affecting me or the kid. I feel tired when she's around. Like my energy being sucked to the black hole. That could be just a belief even that is felt in the body. It could for example be that the air in the house contains more carbon dioxide or something like that. But when she's angry to me, it feels in the heart, like electricity or weight on chest. Same type of sensations I have with my own strong negative emotions. This feels abit of offtopic but it's my earnest report from today.

[graceabounds]

Hello Esa,

I honor the authenticity and vulnerability in all that you have shared here. Far from being offtopic, I think it is very much on topic since it is what is being experienced right now.

There is, as you say, a lot of material here. It is ripe for looking.

So...
Who is all this happening TO?

The black hole is an excellent metaphor. The pull of identification is so strong...

What if I were to propose that her behavior isn’t about YOU at all?
She is doing what she is doing… over there… and the interpretation of it... the thoughts and feelings and resulting sensations are happening… here.
Who suffers?

I could most of the time quickly correct a bit of what I said before it resulted in hours of angry emotional behavior against me. I can feel same type of sensations with strangers too. Like sensing the mood of the room.

Is there an entity that can be found who is responsible? Responsible for her? Responsible for anticipating or preventing a certain behavior?

But when she's angry to me, it feels in the heart, like electricity or weight on chest. Same type of sensations I have with my own strong negative emotions.

Because they ARE your own strong negative emotions. You do not want what is being experienced. And it is absolutely exhausting.

Regarding these actual physical sensations, the homework is to continue to detach them from thoughts about them or interpretation of them and to continue to sit with them, allow them as best you can.

These questions are targeted, but know that they are sent with a tremendous amount of compassion and understanding.

And as always, abundant love,
Becca

[Tuoli]

Namaste,

Thank you Becca very much of your compassion and empathy.

Who is all this happening TO?
A: It's reactive automatic responce. It feels during the situation that there very much is a sufferer or someone that is angry. But when looking happens later, there is no one.

What if I were to propose that her behavior isn’t about YOU at all?
A: Yes, this has been my interpretation too. There's a lot of anger there and it's pouring on to almost all close to her: mother, child and husband. It must be a quite unhappy excistance.

Who suffers?
A: Nobody Now but everybody involved during her the temper tantrum. There is strong negative emotional response with me related thoughts that fuel the emotions.

Is there an entity that can be found who is responsible? Responsible for her? Responsible for anticipating or preventing a certain behavior?
A: It's a memory of what happened then. I recall that time I believed that there was. I don't at the moment.

I meant the speculation of telepathy as an offtopic. There has been too many cases for them to be just coincidence. Just yesterday neighbors kids had done a snowman with snow lantern lighting it. I asked son I he would like to make different kind of snowman with the candle and how he would design it. He said exactly what I was thinking: snowman with candle heart.

With everything being once one in same point in big bang theory, isn't it that way still?

There are credible new studies that supports the quantum nature of brains consciousness. Orchestrated objective reduction (Orch OR) was first put forward in the early 1990s by Nobel laureate for physics Roger Penrose, and anaesthesiologist Stuart Hameroff. The hypothesis combined molecular biology, neuroscience, pharmacology, philosophy, quantum information theory, and quantum gravity. The new anesthetic studies seem to support the hypothesis that quantum process is orchestrated by microtubules in the brain.

So where I'm getting with this is that could other peoples mindstates affect others? Echart Tolle was also talking about how his presence after waking up was affecting others in a very concrete way. Why couldn't other type of mindstates also affect others negatively?

[graceabounds]

Hello,

My personal view is that there is a resonance that occurs, nonverbally, as we are vibrational beings. Many different branches of science point to what you posit as being ‘true’. But is it necessary to know how it operates to be awed by the magic in a moment with your son? :)

Regarding the relationship, on a conventional level, the level that interpersonal interaction occurs, there is still the ability to recognize an unhealthy repetitive pattern and to draw appropriate boundaries. While we do this work we still need to deal with life on this level, take necessary action pertaining to relationships, and also seek help if/as needed with those things.

Why couldn't other type of mindstates also affect others negatively?

Is there a boundary between your emotions and the perceived emotions of others?
Can a self experiencing the mindstate be found?

It feels during the situation that there very much is a sufferer or someone that is angry. But when looking happens later, there is no one.

So sometimes it is clear to you that you don’t find a self and sometimes it is more clearly your experience that you do believe in self or that you do experience a self?

There is strong negative emotional response with me related thoughts that fuel the emotions.

What is the emotional response protecting?
Not from memory but next time it occurs look behind it and describe what is there.

Much love,
Becca

[Tuoli]

Hi!

But is it necessary to know how it operates to be awed by the magic in a moment with your son? :)
A: Absolutely not and most likely I will never know.

Is there a boundary between your emotions and the perceived emotions of others?
Can a self experiencing the mindstate be found?
A: If there is quantum (consciousness) field that is shared with all, and brain is more like a radio picking certain frequences, there is no boundaries. Also this is kind of where I'm getting with all these texts about telepathy. If person is broadcasting angry, stressful emotions, would others close to that person become that way too...?

But to direct experience from speculations, the emotions seem to be same so there is no boundary and self cannot be found.

So sometimes it is clear to you that you don’t find a self and sometimes it is more clearly your experience that you do believe in self or that you do experience a self?
A: This has been the core problem(or belief?) from the beginning that we circle around. I've been describing the experience as being submerged in thoughts and feelings. They fill the reality and there really is not much space for anything else. Their content is self related and believed during the situation. It happens automatically and naturally.

Looking on the otherhand feels more like doing. Not something self is doing but for it to happend, there needs to be some calming down before it can happend.

What is the emotional response protecting?
A: I don't know.

Not from memory but next time it occurs look behind it and describe what is there.
A: I will try to do that but there is this submergion in thoughts and feelings that leave no space for that to happend. It's experienced or remembered like that. 🙏

[graceabounds]

Hello,

I've been describing the experience as being submerged in thoughts and feelings. They fill the reality and there really is not much space for anything else.

Ok, let's practice finding some space...

Here is a step-by-step description of how to look at thoughts. Sit for 10-15 minutes quietly somewhere, several times throughout your day. Close your eyes and just notice thoughts. Don’t engage with any thought, just notice them.
1. Notice the current thought that is present.
Like when you sit observing the body, a thought might arise “this is my feet” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” or any sorts of thoughts.
2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.
3. Then wait for the next thought to come.
4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.
5. Then wait for the next thought to come.
6. Repeat #4 and #5 many-many times.
Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought come in.

This is how to look at thoughts:
Looking how they come and go, and
Observing the short gap between them.
Noticing how the current thought is passing.
And waiting for the next thought to come.

Throughout your day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.

What is it like to be in that gap?

Looking on the otherhand feels more like doing. Not something self is doing but for it to happend, there needs to be some calming down before it can happend.

Nobody said this would be easy :)
But looking can be simple:
What is happening right now?

In a non-calm state that could be as simple as feeling your feet or a sensation of heat, hearing sounds, noticing that there are thoughts.
What is happening right now?

Not from memory but next time it occurs look behind it and describe what is there.
A: I will try to do that but there is this submergion in thoughts and feelings that leave no space for that to happend. It's experienced or remembered like that. 🙏

Practice separating the sensations from the thoughts about them first. Once the sensations are in focus simply allow them and be present with them.
Are you able to experience them directly in this way?

Keep at it!
Much love,
Becca

[Tuoli]

Hey,

....the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.

What is it like to be in that gap?

I didn't have chance to do this until late so I was doing the excersise when I did simple tasks at work with my eyes open. There was peace and beauty in simple things. Late evening with eyes closed there wasn't anything special to report except that what to write about the exercise was popping up often. As a side note this was one of my favorite meditations with body scan when I tried to wake up that way.

What is happening right now?
A: All kind of bodily sensations, thoughts and sounds. (Laying on bed)

Are you able to experience them directly in this way?
A: I started doing this during the day with small negative situations first as a practice for next conflict at home or something like it. I had many successful moments and reactions and thought seemed to be quite ridiculous actually. I will continue observing and practicing for the real deal!