Postby Ixilay » Thu Aug 08, 2024 2:43 pm
Hi again:)
) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No, there s no one, just a very convincing story telling happening:) always using a voice that s first person singular:) n there never was one.
2) Share in your own words what the illusion of separate self is, how it comes about and how it shows up in experience. Then give some experiential examples of how life changed for you after seeing through this illusion.
Again, it feels like there is a very amazing story telling going on, the protagonist I jumps out of the story board, that s made up of all the sensory info blended with thoughts, n claims to be the writer! Supported by everyone around Her, she is both the writer n the protagonist of the whole story.
So what has changed for me is that I shrank back into the limits of the story line, the writer title that was taken for granted to be there is seen through so even though during the day there are times the illusory little self acts as if she s for sure the writer, it doesnt take long for this idea to dissolve due to a reminder that shows up n says that it s not the case. So the main difference is this natural witness feel that s accompanying then little i feel, in a more or less compassionate way, more like holding a mirror and just by doing so, leading it to dissolve.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
It feels like there s actually a ground now, finally, that is not slippery. That the attention can rest in n the truth is revealed then just by doing so. All these ideas of i m right people are so wrong, all the shoulds, arguments claims etc feel even emberrassing. The moment they trend to show up, they are dismissed. They cone with feelings but still, there s a knowing that the feelings are ok, they need to be looked at may be, but the stories are just so unconvincing. Also wanting to write has been a big one for me, like it literally dropped, i feel like this wanting to be "the writer" " the shoulds - have to 's around it, the importance attributed to it, all gone, a big relief about it settled in. I was trying to get rid of it, before this dialogue, becasuse deep down i was sensing that it was not serving me anymore or i simply was not enjoying it anymore but doing it for keeping the character'importance intact, but however much i tried getting rid of it, like a boomerang it hit me again. But the moment that it s seen that this I is a fabrication, "the very creative n important writer character" fell with it. I can feel some emotional residues but a big chunk fell off for sure.
4) Can you remember any specific moment where there was an epiphany? ....a before and after seeing the actuality of no self? Was there a point when you ‘got it’ or was it more of a subtle unfolding of the truth which crept up on you, so to speak, culminating in this realization?
Sth changed when i started meditating on this sutta, actually more like looking into what this totality of experience is. If there are layers or everything takes place in the same empty space. There was a moment when i finally got the sense that there were no layers but just a huge observer, witnes or void was there, it was just s glimpse then i felt like i was about to free fall,like there was going back really, i felt it in my bones n fear rose n mind interfered. Yet after that glimpse this witness emerged, came along with alot of sexual energy, this energy still shows up when the attention rest there. So i guess that s when i finally got out of the head.now it feels gradual, coming n going, more like watching, dissolving, between the senses of finding- losing, then a reminder about that s not being true n all that:) n a huge need to just sit n look n feel all the time, not wanting anything else.
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how these things happen and how they work.
decision, & give examples from experience.
Ok so we( me n my husband) r travelling in a campervan at the moment, we wake up every morning n decide if we want to stay or go. We feel things first( automatically) the weather, if it feels cool enough, if there s enough wind or not, so the body is comfortable, so that it s pleasant, comfortable enough to be, if it feels like this, then the mind evaluates the other conditions, internal n external then there pops up an idea, ok it s nice, let s stay here one more day.then this idea is right away owned, labeled as my idea, so much so that it creates feelings depending on if it was a good or bad idea which reveals itself mostly the next day, depending on the sleep quality :)
intention, & give examples from experience.
The intention shows up these days as attached to self inquiry for example. I wake up every morning n feel sth, a drive, a pull , in the end a feeling really, that brings along a thought that says ok i want to spend many hours sittinh n just looking today, then it feels like an intention, even with a bit of effort feeling attached to it, however the question arises: where s the effort? It cant be found so the intention- like thought generally loses its grip n just a pull remains. So again, a sense of ownership, a controller turns a natural pull into an intention when a thought of how to handle this pull or what to do about it arises.
free will, & give examples from experience.
These last three are challenging cause this personality structure here is so much invested in breaking free from a repressive society, family etc that the feeling of "i ve done this," "that 'i' managed to rebel against it", "always 'chose' what i was not supposed to choose which freed me in so many ways!" is still the undercurrent of so many of the daily experiences. So there are such beliefs here that seem to cloud the vision. Yet on the other hand, even questioning it feels almost irrelevant when the witnessing the mind is happening. It s a big' of course' there s no controller or free will. Obviously it s all thoughts after thoughts so this question even doesnt make sense when the witnessing is dominant.
To answer your question more directly though, i could say it seems impossible that there s free will, a controller or a chooser, despite a habitual feeling that says there might be from time to time:) for example, there s thought right now that says oh i m choosing to spend my time meditating! Yet there s a knowing here that "I"cant be anything other than a word here( however i feel there are so many thoughts like this that need to be looked at constantly n they actually are being looked at just cause sth doesnt feel right n the inquiry starts)
What makes things happen? How does it work?
It seems that some forces work together, sensations lead to thoughts- beliefs- feelings n there appears labels, ownership n a sense of locality where life is happening.yet i dont really know how it all works, it all certainly feels way more mysterious than before. For now i feel i can only say that it s not working the way i thought it was. But on an experiantial level, i cant say i know how it all works, i can only sense yet i dont know yet. It seems to work in mysterious ways where all i can be sure is that i m not the subject that i thought i was, in whose body the control panel was hidden:)
What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
I can only find thoughts that claim the right n wrong way of doing things therefore impose responbility. For example: i should eat healty, cause i m responsible for this body. Or i should call some friends regularly cause i m responsible for investing in relationships to maintain them. So when i look at these thoughts, i see the sense of responsibility is imposed by the mind on the mind, either due to some beliefs or strong emotions related to them. So i can say the content of some thoughts imply a seperate entity that should- should not carry out certain acts etc however when it s investigated, neither a responsible person nor an act of responsibility is to be found, just some beliefs, then thpughts then actions and labeling the actions, then some moral deductions, then some feelings, emotions like guilt n blame, n more thoughts.
6) Anything to add?
Yes:) after all that i wrote n investigated once again, i see that this mind is totally convinced that there s no seperate self other than in thoughts or in habits however this is not an experiential truth for me yet. It s sth i can tap into( or tapping into is happening, whatever:) or is found upon investigation which seems to very frequent n more n more natural each day, yet experientially there s no yes "of course life s just happening' feel to things yet. So is this still a good place to end the thread? On the other hand i dont see anything else to be looked at either, other than what comes up each moment.
Love n many thanks
Isil
