I Need Guidance

[Cam-RT]

It's in my head.. but this is still only understood I don't 'see' it so to say.

There's Understanding it and then DOING IT!

Neither holy or wise..we are just ordinary people who have completed "The Work"...

Come on man LOOK!! Push past the thoughts...What's there???

[Noobstorm]

It's in my head.. but this is still only understood I don't 'see' it so to say.

There's Understanding it and then DOING IT!

Neither holy or wise..we are just ordinary people who have completed "The Work"...

Come on man LOOK!! Push past the thoughts...What's there???

I don't know how to "do it." Experience is observed and then I make logical deductions so this can all be figured out.

[Noobstorm]

I don't know how to push past the thoughts or just experience that doesn't work for me.

[Trevor]

I don't know how to push past the thoughts or just experience that doesn't work for me.

Fair enough Ali. How could 'you' push past thought, when the whole point is there's no you to push past thoughts? There's no you for this to work for. You is a thought or a bunch of different thoughts so how could thought push past thought? There's nothing you need to do and no you who could do it. What you think you're looking for, what we're pointing to is already the case. It just needs to be noticed that's all. Except it doesn't NEED to be noticed. You're not missing out on anything as long as you feel there's a 'me' running your life. If and when you notice what we're pointing to here, you'll realise it was always already the case anyway. It's more about an unknowing rather than a knowing. So relax. Here's a couple of videos you might enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFjY1fA ... r_embedded#!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptU6sp9bG3U&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXzQ8nxK_9U

[Cam-RT]

Okay let's try this...

Make the Wild assumption that you don't exist.... That it's not "YOUR" life. It's just life...That it's not "YOUR" computer. It's just a Computer...That it's not YOUR stuff. It's just stuff...

There is NO thinker...JUST THOUGHT.

There is NO liver (not the organ)...JUST LIFE.

There is NO Owner.....THERE IS NO-YOU!!!!

[Empty Mirror]

I don't know how to push past the thoughts or just experience that doesn't work for me.

Have you noticed "knowing"? Have you taken a good look at "knowing"?

When you say I feel, or I've looked, you'll notice that the "I" that you speak about is really just a kind of "knowing". You "know" that you are aware of this sentence. See whether this "knowing" and this "I" are in any way different from each other.

When you've discovered that they are identical take a very close look at "knowing", and see whether it resides anywhere in the universe, or whether, in actual fact, the universe resides in "knowing".

Awareness is not in people, people are in awareness.

[Cam-RT]

WHOA!! Empty mirror...

This forum thread is for 1 (green) and three guides who have been confirmed on this web site, I appreciate your enthusiasum but please...pick up a new thread for your self and let us focus on you...

Thank you!!....

[Cam-RT]

Hey, Ali...

Sorry about that interruption...

Okay, since we may have sparked a curiosity in what was just addressed let's look at it...

I don't know how to push past the thoughts or just experience that doesn't work for me.

Have you noticed "knowing"? Have you taken a good look at "knowing"?

Knowing comes from seeing...and understanding ( without a doubt ) that something is in fact the truth...
You can't do that until you confirm it to yourself...By looking...

When you say I feel, or I've looked, you'll notice that the "I" that you speak about is really just a kind of "knowing". You "know" that you are aware of this sentence. See whether this "knowing" and this "I" are in any way different from each other.

This is where it fly's of the track...Who feels?? ----Who is looking??
***The body feels as a result of acknowledgement and belief that thoughts are true...
***knowing itself is a belief in which has no place in this inquiry...beliefs and opinions ARE NOT THE TRUTH.

Everything we know, no matter how sure we are, is really just Belief, and ALL beliefs are self limiting, and serve to reduce the truly infinite to falsely finite...

When you've discovered that they are identical take a very close look at "knowing", and see whether it resides anywhere in the universe, or whether, in actual fact, the universe resides in "knowing".

No...They're NOT identical..." I " is a figment of your imagination, and should be dealt with as such...
Again...We are looking at the non-existence of a thought construct that does'nt exist in reality...knowing can only come from actually seeing this...

Awareness is not in people, people are in awareness.

Awareness is being...Just living life without the attachment to thoughts projected from the mind.

***Sorry for all the confusion...

Now my question to you is...As you go through you day, does it require a YOU to go about your usuall business? or does it just happen automatically...

Does it require a YOU to make you body function??

[Empty Mirror]

Apologies, I was under the impression that I wouldn't have access to any place that I wasn't allowed to post.

However, your reply has raised some questions for me, so as you've suggested, I've started my own thread to ask you those questions. If you have the time perhaps you could answer them on this thread:

http://www.liberationunleashed.com/nati ... f=4&t=1025

[Cam-RT]

Again Ali my apologies...

Please continue.

[Noobstorm]

Hi Cam, I'll post again about this later :)

[Noobstorm]

Okay let's try this...

Make the Wild assumption that you don't exist.... That it's not "YOUR" life. It's just life...That it's not "YOUR" computer. It's just a Computer...That it's not YOUR stuff. It's just stuff...

There is NO thinker...JUST THOUGHT.

There is NO liver (not the organ)...JUST LIFE.

There is NO Owner.....THERE IS NO-YOU!!!!

Well I noticed I don't think, because the brain thinks not the thought "I." So clearly I am not the brain.

What if I am the awareness that resides in the body, or what if I am all these experiences happening?

Now my question to you is...As you go through you day, does it require a YOU to go about your usuall business? or does it just happen automatically...

Does it require a YOU to make you body function??

Without a you they might be able to happen, I don't know. If I move my arm, the arm is moved but there is no "I" maybe it's just tagged there as a conditioned response? Haha I'm totally lost, what makes it move?

[Cam-RT]

Hey Ali...

Okay let's go with this...

What if I am the awareness that resides in the body, or what if I am all these experiences happening?

Awareness: is the state or ability to perceive, to feel, or to be conscious of events, objects, or sensory patterns. In this level of consciousness, sense data can be confirmed by an observer without necessarily implying understanding. More broadly, it is the state or quality of being aware of something.<-----From Wikipedia.

Consciousness is the quality or state of being aware of an external object or something within oneself. It has been defined as: subjectivity, awareness, the ability to experience or to feel, wakefulness, having a sense of selfhood, and the executive control system of the mind.[3] Despite the difficulty in definition, many philosophers believe that there is a broadly shared underlying intuition about what consciousness is.<---Also Wikipedia

Earlier, when "Empty Mirror" chimed in on this thread, I interpreted Awareness as a "post liberation" by-product.
Where as the definition states states both..Yes, "Empty Mirror" has seen this No-Self for a while, Yet each individual communicates this differently...His expression of this, was unique in itself...

Your question, can be interpreted differently depending on how different people perceive it...

In this forum we're focusing on liberation...

There is an energy that resides in your body with out it "You're Dead"...Right?? You can call it awareness if you wish...BUT mentally there is NO SUCH ENTITY AS A "SELF", "I", OR "ME"...They're just thought.

These experiences are the sum of what is in your memories, picked up through life...Also thought. Stored in the brain. Also "NOT YOU..."

Are you with me here?.... Does this make sense??

If not lets clear this up before we move on....

[Noobstorm]

Okay so awareness/consciousness is the "state of being aware."

I think what I'm trying to find out is that's all there is, instead of my belief of many different "aware-ers" in this "state of being aware."

[Empty Mirror]

Earlier, when "Empty Mirror" chimed in on this thread, I interpreted Awareness as a "post liberation" by-product.
Where as the definition states states both..Yes, "Empty Mirror" has seen this No-Self for a while, Yet each individual communicates this differently...His expression of this, was unique in itself...

Sorry about that Cam. I can see that I may have caused confusion by using a different approach to you. I liken this (difference in pointing) to two people pointing at the same moon from different positions. They'd have to be standing in the exact same spot for the pointing to be exactly the same.

You are pointing to the lack of a personal "I", and I was doing the same, but in a different way.

Just to clear up any confusion for you Noobstrom, here is how the "knowing" that I spoke of points away from a personal "I".

In what follows I'm occasionally going to use the word "You" with a capital "Y", and when I do I will not be referring to the person you imagine yourself to be, I will be referring to awareness, or "aware beingness".

If you take a very close look at the sense of "being" (the sense of existence), and if you take a very close look at "knowing", you will find that the two of them are the same thing, and they are not 'in' any person.

Thought has confused this "knowing beingness" (or "aliveness" or "aware beingness") with the body-mind that appears in this "aware beingness". In so doing it "person-alises" all experience, and in so doing "manufactures" a personal "I".

This personalisation of experience is the source of suffering. The experience itself is not the source of suffering, no matter what the experience is.

Once it becomes clear what You truly are (or what "this" truly is - same thing), the suffering ceases because the personalisation is seen through.

This entire universe, with it's whole 14 billion year history has only ever existed in/as You. It has absolutely no existence outside of You, and nothing ever could exist outside of You.

You are what appears, what it appears in, and what knows of the appearance. You are "this".....all of it. You're not a person appearing in it.

At the moment you are confusing the "aliveness" (or "aware beingness"), that you know yourself to be, with a "person" appearing/arising in this "aware beingness".

I hope that this helps you see that Cam and I were pointing to the same lack of a personal "I".

Apologies again to both of you for any confusion that I may have caused.