The Gate

Hello Lisa,

Well observed. 😉

the sense show! :D

Yes!

Now, how exactly does the sense show get solidified into a Lisa / the story of Lisa?

Watch this carefully over a couple of days and come back to report on specific examples.

P S. I'm so glad you have benefited from talking to Elad.

Hi Magdalena,

How exactly does the sense show get solidified into a Lisa / the story of Lisa?
Watch this carefully over a couple of days and come back to report on specific examples.

The content of thought, and the habitual, conditioned identification with the content of thought, solidifies the story of Lisa / a separate self. DE (seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling) + sensation + thoughts merely appearing do not result in solidifying Lisa / a separate self.

The sense show gets solidified into a Lisa / the story of Lisa, not through DE of the senses and sensation, but only through listening to the content of thought.

Examples:

Seeing my bra hanging from a door knob (DE) then thought – the ‘remembering’ that “I was going to put that on” = solidifying the story of Lisa / a separate self.

Touching my dog. Immediately, the overlay of thought, ‘my’ occurs spontaneously (object / subject). It’s then labelled ‘thought’, as per the recommended exercise to blot out the content, but the story has already occurred and been heard.

The overthinking mind, negativity, the deeply rooted habit of evaluative thinking and fault-finding is a BIG one:

Example:

New 16 year co-op student is placed across from me in office: makes microwave popcorn and sits at desk crunching popcorn. Smelling (thought: ‘I’ dislike the smell of microwave popcorn and it results in a headache. ‘I’ put on a face mask until the odor subsides.). Hearing (Thought: Again? She had microwave popcorn for lunch yesterday?! Ever heard of a sandwich?). Hearing (crunch, crunch, crunch. Thought, “Oh FFS. This is a professional office. Do you see anyone else munching popcorn at their desk?). Hearing (slurping large bubble tea with whipped cream). Thought, “Niiiiiiiiice. No wonder you’re so fat”). Hearing (repeated yawning. Thought, “Are you doing this for attention?” (annoyance) = me/not me).

All of this judgement is recognized as resistance to what is, the mind’s need to control, to make right and other’s wrong, complaining – which strengthens the belief in a separate self. It can be recognised in the moment as ‘thought’ which momentarily creates space, and perhaps a microsecond of disidentification, but it’s fleeting.

Emotion (which requires thought + label) charges the thought content, making Lisa, and the story of Lisa, solid as a rock.

Magdalena, short of seeing through the delusion of a separate self, what is the most effective practice to cultivate the opposite of these controlling, fault-finding thought stories? Perhaps ‘I’ don’t have to choose between the two?

With appreciation.

Hello Lisa,

You've done some very good looking.

The habitual, conditioned identification with the content of thought, solidifies the story of Lisa / a separate self. DE (seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling) + sensation + thoughts merely appearing do not result in solidifying Lisa / a separate self.

True. The content of thought is the culprit.
But how is DE different from sensation? Aren't the two one and the same?

....only through listening to the content of thought.

Is "listening" enough for this solidifying?
What if thought content / stories are listened to but not believed? Not followed? Not identified with (i. e. not believed to be true?)
Remember the drunk at a bus stop? You can listen to him all right, and so what?

Touching my dog. Immediately, the overlay of thought, ‘my’ occurs spontaneously (object / subject).

Take your time petting the dog from now on - without going to thought and with your eyes closed, try and find the boundary between where Lisa's body ends and the dog's body begins.

It’s then labelled ‘thought’, as per the recommended exercise to blot out the content, but the story has already occurred and been heard.

The exercise was not really about blotting anything out, but about learning the difference between thought as empty carrier of content, and thought content itself. I can see it's helped to clarify things, hasn't it?

The overthinking mind, negativity, the deeply rooted habit of evaluative thinking and fault-finding is a BIG one:

Love your example.
Let's look into it, shall we?
Before we do though, let us find out what exactly bothers you about
- overthinking
- evaluative thinking (let's call this "judgment")
- fault-finding

Please give each your careful attention and tell me what you find. Remember to answer all the questions from this post.

Hi Magdalena,

Let’s start with this one:

Take your time petting the dog from now on - without going to thought and with your eyes closed, try and find the boundary between where Lisa's body ends and the dog's body begins.

With eyes closed, and without going to thought, there is just sensation, a blurring of boundaries. I’m engaging in this practice as often as remembered. Thought keeps popping up but the practice is continued.Thank you.

But how is DE different from sensation? Aren't the two one and the same?

I’m glad you asked this question because I’ve been wondering about this. To me, sensation is the felt sense within the body (tingling, heart racing, breathing, digestion sometime…) which doesn’t appear to fall into the category of any of the five senses, including touch. I'm interested to hear your input.

What if thought content / stories are listened to but not believed? Not followed? Not identified with (i. e. not believed to be true?) Remember the drunk at a bus stop? You can listen to him all right, and so what?

Thank you for making the distinction between listening to thought and believing in thought. Disidentifying with the voice in the head starts with awareness. First, become aware of the voice in the head ("thought"). The thought train is interrupted - for a moment. Making more space by focusing on the breath. Deciding not to believe the content (ie: drunk at the bus stop).

learning the difference between thought as empty carrier of content, and thought content itself.

Could you expand on this a bit more please, Magdalena?

Yes, the practice of focusing on DE has helped to clarify things by allowing me to see that there is only touching, hearing, seeing, smelling, tasting + thought occurring in DE (I experience sensation/energy as DE, and separate from all that, so looking forward to your input).

Before we do though, let us find out what exactly bothers you about
- overthinking
- evaluative thinking (let's call this "judgment")
- fault-finding

What bothers me about all this is that I recognize that I create my own suffering and yet, the behaviour is so engrained, there seems to be an inability to stop, even after moments of noticing the behaviour and labelling it thought or making space by taking a breath. Is it just a matter of forming new habits through focusing on DE exclusively as much as possible?

Lisa doesn’t want to be negatively impacted by irrational beliefs that others ‘should’ behave in a certain way and if they don’t then Lisa feels annoyed or upset. Lisa would prefer that nothing bothered her. Lisa wants everything to just pass through her and disappear. Lisa doesn’t want to expend all this negative energy on stupid, petty stuff that ultimately Lisa has no control over, she just thinks she does.

Hello Lisa,

With eyes closed, and without going to thought, there is just sensation, a blurring of boundaries. I’m engaging in this practice as often as remembered.

Please keep doing this. You can expand it to many other situations: when sitting, can the boundary between the body and the chair/sofa/etc. be located other than in "simply sensation"? The boundary between the body and clothing? Between the fingers typing and the keyboard? Possibilities are endless. Then try things out with your eyes open. Have fun. ;-)

To me, sensation is the felt sense within the body (tingling, heart racing, breathing, digestion sometime…)

Oh I see. But, come to think of it (just a turn of phrase LOL), aren’t these mostly labels? The heart racing or breathing are accessible to the touch and the hearing, so are some digestive issues.
And, with your eyes closed, and without going to thought, how can you know that the heart or other internal organs exist? ;-)

We mostly pay attention to the inside of the body when a sensation labelled “discomfort” appears: "tingling", "headache", etc. But when looked into, is “discomfort” ever part of any sensation – or is it just a label that we habitually attach to some sensations rather than others? Please observe this when you get a chance.

Disidentifying with the voice in the head starts with awareness. First, become aware of the voice in the head ("thought").

Oh becoming aware of the voice is easy – whenever you get that irritated/anxious/upset etc. feeling, some story or other is running, isn't it?

But the recognition doesn’t necessarily come as another thought. It may be a momentary thoughtless/wordless flash too.

The thought train is interrupted - for a moment. Making more space by focusing on the breath.

You don’t even need to make space and focus on the breath. Once you notice what’s going on, things become clear, right?

Deciding not to believe the content (ie: drunk at the bus stop).

Hahaha – you seem to enjoy believing that that you can decide to do or not to do something LOL
But, when looked into, isn’t it that this not-believing sort of happens on its own (following recognition, that is) – or it doesn’t (meaning “you decide” not to believe, and yet…).

In either case, is any decision making/er involved? Please investigate this when an opportunity arises.

learning the difference between thought as empty carrier of content, and thought content itself.

Could you expand on this a bit more please, Magdalena?

As in the previous exercise.

Whether the dog’s fur or a hot coffee cup are seen or touched, it is "simply seeing" or "simply touching" – right?
Similarly, whether it’s a thought about a work situation, a worry about a future event, a musing about the forthcoming holiday or anything else, it’s "simply thought" – right? The details are the thought content. Can you see this?

I experience sensation/energy as DE

I don’t know about “energy”. It’s one of those terms that everyone seems to be using to denote all kinds of stuff – therefore useless in my view.

What bothers me about all this is that I recognize that I create my own suffering

Yes.

and yet, the behaviour is so engrained, there seems to be an inability to stop, even after moments of noticing the behaviour and labelling it thought or making space by taking a breath. Is it just a matter of forming new habits through focusing on DE exclusively as much as possible?

It’s a matter of putting into practice those various little tricks that we have been discussing in this conversation from the start.

These things will not stop simply because attention is paid to them occasionally, or over some weeks or months. If you believe otherwise, you are deluding yourself.

When it comes to methods, well – the methods that work best for you need to be discovered by yourself. If I tell you to do this or that, and you do it when it is remembered, it will not impact the whole thing as much as when you discover what works best for you and it becomes your instinct and your habit to go to that as often as possible. I can only suggest things that I know can work, but it’s up to you to experiment with them, modify them, invent new ones – those that you find the most helpful. This is totally possible for you, and for anyone else, just as it has been for me and so many others. All it takes is curiosity and sustained attention. This is not the kind of know-how you get from books or from other people – you get it from experimenting on your own.

Lisa doesn’t want to be negatively impacted by irrational beliefs that others ‘should’ behave in a certain way and if they don’t then Lisa feels annoyed or upset.

Let’s go back to the popcorn-munching-student example. I totally understand the bodily response to the smell – there is no controlling it, right?

As for the judgements part (the inconsiderate/bad-mannered/fat girl etc.), can the arrival of these judgements be controlled?

Remember the thoughts exercise – can you make certain types of thought come or stop them from coming?

Isn’t judgement (of absolutely any kind) – “simply thought”? A thought that carries a certain type of content?

Can it be controlled at all? ;-)


Does Lisa act on her judgement – like speaking unkindly to the girl, turning her desk upside down so the popcorn goes flying around the entire office, or stabbing the poor student in the back? (Hope not).

Lisa would prefer that nothing bothered her. Lisa wants everything to just pass through her and disappear. Lisa doesn’t want to expend all this negative energy on stupid, petty stuff that ultimately Lisa has no control over, she just thinks she does.

Sure, who wouldn’t.

Remember the “so what?” ;-)

Hi Magdalena,

Please keep doing this. You can expand it to many other situations: when sitting, can the boundary between the body and the chair/sofa/etc. be located other than in "simply sensation"? The boundary between the body and clothing? Between the fingers typing and the keyboard? Possibilities are endless. Then try things out with your eyes open. Have fun. ;-)

I am having fun and noticing more and more how it's all ‘simply sensation’!

To me, sensation is the felt sense within the body (tingling, heart racing, breathing, digestion sometime…)
Oh I see. But, come to think of it (just a turn of phrase LOL), aren’t these mostly labels? …And, with your eyes closed, and without going to thought, how can you know that the heart or other internal organs exist? ;-)
Wow – this never even occurred to me but is so obvious now that you’ve pointed it out?!
We mostly pay attention to the inside of the body when a sensation labelled “discomfort” appears: "tingling", "headache", etc. But when looked into, is “discomfort” ever part of any sensation – or is it just a label that we habitually attach to some sensations rather than others? Please observe this when you get a chance.

I have been observing this. So true!

Just today, for example, I received a call from a co-worker who was upset with something I did, which affected her client. She concluded that I had made a mistake. I responded empathically and apologised for the upset it had caused her client. I had taken my manager’s direction, hadn’t done anything wrong and my manager later followed up with her to explain the reasons that her client was charged additional fees.

Once off the phone my heart started racing and pounding. The label was ‘anxiety’ It was extremely “uncomfortable”. This sensation carried on for hours (despite the fact that I recognised that it was all related to crap from my past and feeling vulnerable having recently started a new job). I caught myself starting to analyse the feeling (going to thought) and instead returned to merely allowing the sensation and feeling it. I merely sat with the sensation, sometimes focusing on the breath, in an attempt to let it work itself out. Of course it eventually did.

Oh becoming aware of the voice is easy – whenever you get that irritated/anxious/upset etc. feeling, some story or other is running, isn't it?

Yes, now that you mention it. And yet, I don’t always seem to ‘notice’ this?!

But the recognition doesn’t necessarily come as another thought. It may be a momentary thoughtless/wordless flash too.

I will pay attention more.

The thought train is interrupted - for a moment. Making more space by focusing on the breath. You don’t even need to make space and focus on the breath. Once you notice what’s going on, things become clear, right?

I appreciate you patiently pointing out something that is so obvious to you and how you keep things simple. That’s right. What’s prompting the apparent need to focus on the breath? An awareness that a thought story is happening – which doesn’t need to be ‘attended to’ with more thoughts about what to do about it. Right?

Hahaha – you seem to enjoy believing that that you can decide to do or not to do something LOL In either case, is any decision making/er involved? Please investigate this when an opportunity arises.

How is it that something can be so obvious in hindsight once you’ve pointed it out? The whole point of LU is ‘seeing’ that there is no ‘controller’ or ‘doer’ or, in this case, ‘decider’. Gees I’m dense :P

I remember noticing an apparent decision this morning that was recognised at the time as not being a ‘voluntary, independent decision’ but now I can’t remember what it was.

But, when looked into, isn’t it that this not-believing sort of happens on its own (following recognition, that is) – or it doesn’t (meaning “you decide” not to believe, and yet…).

I will pay more attention to this specifically. Using the example of today’s ‘panic’ / ‘anxiety’, that sensation dissipated not because I decided anything but rather because the thoughts causing the sensation were no longer believed and went away.

learning the difference between thought as empty carrier of content, and thought content itself.
Could you expand on this a bit more please, Magdalena?
As in the previous exercise.
Whether the dog’s fur or a hot coffee cup are seen or touched, it is "simply seeing" or "simply touching" – right? Similarly, whether it’s a thought about a work situation, a worry about a future event, a musing about the forthcoming holiday or anything else, it’s "simply thought" – right? The details are the thought content. Can you see this?

Yes! Thank you for clarifying.

and yet, the behaviour is so engrained, there seems to be an inability to stop, even after moments of noticing the behaviour and labelling it thought or making space by taking a breath. Is it just a matter of forming new habits through focusing on DE exclusively as much as possible?

It’s a matter of putting into practice those various little tricks that we have been discussing in this conversation from the start.

These things will not stop simply because attention is paid to them occasionally, or over some weeks or months. If you believe otherwise, you are deluding yourself.

Thanks for the emphasis and clarity.

When it comes to methods, well – the methods that work best for you need to be discovered by yourself. If I tell you to do this or that, and you do it when it is remembered, it will not impact the whole thing as much as when you discover what works best for you and it becomes your instinct and your habit to go to that as often as possible.

This makes complete sense.

I can only suggest things that I know can work, but it’s up to you to experiment with them, modify them, invent new ones – those that you find the most helpful. This is totally possible for you, and for anyone else, just as it has been for me and so many others. All it takes is curiosity and sustained attention. This is not the kind of know-how you get from books or from other people – you get it from experimenting on your own.

Thank you for that.

I’m finding that since I started this new job, in a totally unrelated field to my profession, and which is very detailed oriented, that my attention is consistently being ‘pulled away’ into the work. I will stay curious and experiment.

Let’s go back to the popcorn-munching-student example. I totally understand the bodily response to the smell – there is no controlling it, right?

Right.
No.

Remember the thoughts exercise – can you make certain types of thought come or stop them from coming?

No.

Isn’t judgement (of absolutely any kind) – “simply thought”? A thought that carries a certain type of content?

Yes! - duh :P

Can it be controlled at all? ;-)

No!

Lisa would prefer that nothing bothered her. Lisa wants everything to just pass through her and disappear. Lisa doesn’t want to expend all this negative energy on stupid, petty stuff that ultimately Lisa has no control over, she just thinks she does.
Sure, who wouldn’t.

Remember the “so what?” ;-)

That little trick has come in handy many times. I forgot to use it today!?!?

Thank you for your continued guidance.

Hello Lisa,

I am having fun and noticing more and more how it's all ‘simply sensation’!

Good. :-)

I have been observing this. So true!

Good. :-)

I caught myself starting to analyse the feeling (going to thought) and instead returned to merely allowing the sensation and feeling it. I merely sat with the sensation, sometimes focusing on the breath, in an attempt to let it work itself out. Of course it eventually did.

Perfect. :-)

whenever you get that irritated/anxious/upset etc. feeling, some story or other is running, isn't it?

…I don’t always seem to ‘notice’ this?!

No worries. Even if you notice it later, it still counts as a recognition. You’re doing well. :-)

I will pay attention more.

Just be open to things morphing and transforming. Nothing is ever written in stone.

What’s prompting the apparent need to focus on the breath? An awareness that a thought story is happening – which doesn’t need to be ‘attended to’ with more thoughts about what to do about it. Right?

Not that there’s anything wrong with focus on the breath or anything. Just remain open to the possibility that it does not always happen in the same way, and don’t worry when it doesn’t. Any way in which things happen is OK.

The whole point of LU is ‘seeing’ that there is no ‘controller’ or ‘doer’ or, in this case, ‘decider’.

“The whole point of LU” is irrelevant to you now.

But, yes – seeing the no controller/chooser/decider/doer is huge.

It won’t do to sort of grasp it intellectually. It needs to be observed in daily life. You’ve done those hand flipping, two drinks, and similar exercises – but have they really got you to see the absence of all these functions that we so readily take for granted?

I’d suggest that you go back to these exercises, do them again, and then try and observe how the controlling/choosing/deciding/doing work in real life.
Are they managed by some independent entity?
Are they managed by thought?
Or is it that thoughts like “I did it”, “I chose this”, etc. come a split second after an action occurs?

Can the intake via the senses be controlled/done/chosen – once eyes are open, can you choose what is being seen?
When not sleeping, can you control the sounds that are heard?
Once a surface is touched, can the sensation be selected?

See how it works in various situations, from simple to more complex, and come back to report on what is found.

I will stay curious and experiment.

:-) :-) :-) Yes! :-) :-) :-)

Isn’t judgement (of absolutely any kind) – “simply thought”? A thought that carries a certain type of content?

Yes! - duh :P

Good that you can see this. ;-)

Consider the implications of this now.

I know we’re always hearing things like “Do not judge” etc., but is it really within your power to choose not to?
And if it isn’t, can you hold yourself responsible for judgements arriving? Blame yourself? Beat yourself up?
I mean none of this happens with the coming of pleasant thoughts – like “Nice weather today”, right?
But isn’t it essentially the same thing – “simply thought” – but with different content?

Are YOU responsible for the judgements that arrive?

Sure, judgement thoughts leave a sort of unpleasant aftertaste, if you see what I mean – but how much of this is conditioned? Because of course it’s not nice to have nasty thoughts about people. And of course you’re a better person if you don’t, right? Or at least if you don’t admit you do? ;-)


But isn’t judgement simply an indication of feeling separate from Life? Like a need to be defensive – just in case?

It happens as long as it needs to, and then diminishes. No need to feed it more attention than it deserves.

Thank you for your continued guidance.

You’re most welcome.

Hello there, Lisa,

When I said that, I meant that this is not something for you to go into right now. Instead, you need to focus on your looking, and not follow any generalised distractions - however attractive they may appear. Sorry if I didn't express my point quite clearly.

Looking forward to hearing from you when you're ready. :-)

Thanks - and you too.

Hello Lisa,

How are you doing? Any interesting observations to share?

Hi Magdalena!

Thank you so much for checking in.

I feel a bit sheepish for not connecting with you. I just wasn't motivated to engage in some of the LU exercises last weekend, or after a long day at work, and thus couldn't report back on those. (I felt a bit deflated upon learning that I had engaged in all the LU exercises without a shift to be honest). No control. Yes. Thinks happen or they don't and both are fine. Yes.

I have been doing to hand flipping exercise. I can see that there is no thought involved involved in it. Just today I 'thought' about stopping the flipping but didn't. So even when there is thought involved, it doesn't control anything.

I also recognise that thought 'covers' everything. With the LU mirror exercise, for example, which I did in bits and pieces when in front of the mirror. The bottom of my legs, which don't appear in the mirror, are memory/thought.

Other observations have been how much Lisa is on autopilot. Showering, towelling off, cooking, dressing... all activities of daily living occur without thought or 'decisions' by Lisa. They are automatic. These behaviours is just functioning. I see this intellectually.

Your prompt to notice that a thought story is running when feeling agitated, annoyed (choose the negative label) has also been helpful for me to wake up in the moment, recognize the 'simply thought' and/or content and shift attention. A 'trick' that came up for me is to hum. When I'm humming, words can't appear in Lisa's mind. There's no room for words when humming is happening. I also use your "So what" tip.

I actually did start replying to your questions the other night:

Isn’t judgement (of absolutely any kind) – “simply thought”? A thought that carries a certain type of content?
Yes! - duh :P
Good that you can see this. ;-)
Consider the implications of this now.

The ‘packaging’ or ‘wrapping’ or ‘envelope’ of mind content is all the same – ‘simply thought’. All thought is "Brown paper packages tied up with strings" (borrowing from The Sound of Music). The delivery of that mind package isn’t the problem. The supposed problems start only after that plain brown paper mind package is opened, so to speak, and the content is labelled as negative/unwanted/not accepted.

I know we’re always hearing things like “Do not judge” etc., but is it really within your power to choose not to?
And if it isn’t, can you hold yourself responsible for judgements arriving? Blame yourself? Beat yourself up?
I mean none of this happens with the coming of pleasant thoughts – like “Nice weather today”, right?
But isn’t it essentially the same thing – “simply thought” – but with different content?
Are YOU responsible for the judgements that arrive?

No, Lisa is not responsible for the judgements that arrive or thoughts of any kind that arise. They appear out of nowhere, from no one, and disappear. Thoughts are like soap bubbles. They arise, float around and pop. Thank you for that insight. I've been recognizing that++).

When at work, it's sometimes as quiet as a library. I LOVE it! I notice the silence and the stillness. A peace arises. A feeling of being rooted in something occurs.

I’d suggest that you go back to these exercises, do them again, and then try and observe how the controlling/choosing/deciding/doing work in real life.
Are they managed by some independent entity?
Are they managed by thought?
Or is it that thoughts like “I did it”, “I chose this”, etc. come a split second after an action occurs?

See how it works in various situations, from simple to more complex, and come back to report on what is found.

I have been looking, or maybe more thinking?, about all this when engaged in activities. For example, right now, there is typing. What is typing? It's happening in each and every moment faster than Lisa can keep up with. I just scratched my forehead. No thought involved. Autopilot. That behaviour has occurred thousands of times (stimulus - response).

Lisa will do the drinks exercise on Saturday and Sunday. I already 'know' the answers, as I recognized that when I did it the first time, there was no decision maker at work. Clearly I didn't internalize this or truly 'see' this as no apparent shift occurred.

Can the intake via the senses be controlled/done/chosen – once eyes are open, can you choose what is being seen?
When not sleeping, can you control the sounds that are heard?
Once a surface is touched, can the sensation be selected?

The intake via the senses, allows EVERYTHING. There is absolutely no choice/decision/control over what is or isn't seen, heard, smelled, tasted or touched. Awareness resists nothing. Only thought, or the mind, resists.

Thank you for your support.