Liberation Unleashed Forum The Gate
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It will be helpful if you tell me which specific questions you are struggling with so we can inquire further if needed.I hope to answer the final questions but I've been kind of stuck with them and feeling resistance because I don't feel confident in being able to answer the questions.
Forget I said that! The “danger” is there only if there is a benefit to someone – to get “enlightened”, to improve themselves – you catch my drift, right? If it’s seen that there is no such thing/entity/whatever, than it’s not your doing anyway, it's not your practice – it just happens :). Looking, not looking, it's not in your control, otherwise you'll be looking all the time, right?! Anyway, that is the only way to see what is real and what is fiction. So keep on LOOKING :) You see, me telling you to look is just like a virus thought that is imposed on your thought system, disrupting it, sabotaging it :)). So is there something that does the looking so it can become a practice? Check!I guess maybe I want to know it continuously and I think I may be using the inquiries as a practice, as you warned against.
Unfortunately, thought is not equipped to take you to a place where it’s all known and understood. Logic can take you only so far as logic is kind of built on itself – concept upon concept upon concept, logically (or not) connected where basically no concept exists. Logic is empty. Do you see the problem? It’s just unknowable. Thought can only take you to a place where you accept this, and make peace with not knowing. It will try and try again until it exhausts itself and gives up seeing the pointlessness in this. The best way is to keep checking the validity of every resistant, seeking or doubtful thought. LOOK and LOOK AGAIN! That is the way ( wow, I sound like a Mandalorian :) )I've been considering what you said about it not mattering whether or not I recognize how things truly are. I have not been able to accept that or understand it or realize how its always there even when I'm not having some glimpse or direct experience.
yesyou catch my drift, right?
yes, I see that its not a problem whether I'm looking or not because its not in my control. Looking happens when it happens and doesn't when it doesn't.otherwise you'll be looking all the time, right?!
No. I dont know where the inquires and the impulse to look at my direct experience come from and I'm not making it happen.So is there something that does the looking so it can become a practice? Check!
yes, its not something to be reconciled within thinkingDo you see the problem?
what does it mean to check the validity of the thoughts?The best way is to keep checking the validity of every resistant, seeking or doubtful thought.
No, I am just describing the thought about my intention that is arising. There are thoughts about how I can choose one intention or another and which one is best but I don't choose those thoughts and theres no one that they arise to.How do "you" "create these intentions"? Again are the "thinker" of thoughts?
Free will is the thought that I am an agent who is controlling my actions. In direct experience, actions just arise and there is no control or separation because there is no entity at the center.Describe free will & give examples from experience.
I’m finding these questions to be tedious because I don’t think there is any fundamental difference between intentions and free will and choice and control. Its the same explanation for each one. They just arise or thoughts about them arise and theres not anything to do or anyone to do it. And sometimes its recognized and sometimes its not. But every time direct looking arises, theres an experience of confirmation. I can’t choose to look directly.Describe choice & give examples from experience.
There is no control. Theres and experience of fingers are moving and pressing buttons and theres no one to make it happenDescribe control & give examples from experience.
Theres no positive answer to be given from direct experience. It can only be said whats not making it happen. Its not made to happen by a self. I dont know how it works. Theres suchnessWhat makes things happen? How does it work?
Nothing and everything. How can I be responsible if theres no self or control? And also what appears is subject to cause and effect and I want to be of benefit and not cause harm. I recently hurt my friends feelings with my words. I recognize that I was not in control of what I said. And I acknowledge the impact. And I recognize that I was not in control of feeling bad about it afterwards. And I recognize that I was not it control of apologizing and taking care with the situation and trying to make it right.What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
Thank you Rali. bottomless gratitude6) Anything to add?
Yes intentions are just more thoughts about possible actions, sometimes they coinside whith what is happening and sometimes not at all - like all these new years resolutions to eat healthy and exercise and be kind ...:)). At the end of the day it all just happens :)No, I am just describing the thought about my intention that is arising. There are thoughts about how I can choose one intention or another and which one is best but I don't choose those thoughts and theres no one that they arise to.
Check in DE if it's true or not. Thoughts say funny stuff - sometimes they point to real experience and sometimes they are completely off target. It's basically where the difference between illusion and delusion lies - knowing that thoughts are useful tools but empty :)what does it mean to check the validity of the thoughts?
no self ever1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
The illusion of a separate self is a thought. a thought that creates an apparent gap between a perceived center of experience and its objects. a thought that there is agency and that I have to control what arises in order to get a good outcome.2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
It feels like a relief to know that there is nothing to do and that I don't have to believe my thoughts. It makes it harder to cling to whats arising and clears more space for play and life expressing itself.3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
it has been many shifts back and forth over a long period. seeing that theres no one to control what arises or believe in these thoughts.4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
theres thoughts about options but ultimately the decision comes of itself5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.
it is an illusion to believe I create these intentions of how to be or live. actually I can just let them come and go and still be engaged with them without feeling theres any effort to realize them. when I sit for mediation, I can let the different methods for meditation arises and be practiced without feeling like I'm controlling them.Describe intention & give examples from experience.
Free will is the thought that I am an agent who is controlling my actions. In direct experience, actions just arise and there is no control or separation because there is no entity at the center.Describe free will & give examples from experience.
I’m finding these questions to be tedious because I don’t think there is any fundamental difference between intentions and free will and choice and control. Its the same explanation for each one. They just arise or thoughts about them arise and theres not anything to do or anyone to do it. And sometimes its recognized and sometimes its not. But every time direct looking arises, theres an experience of confirmation. I can’t choose to look directly.Describe choice & give examples from experience.
There is no control. Theres and experience of fingers are moving and pressing buttons and theres no one to make it happenDescribe control & give examples from experience.
Theres no positive answer to be given from direct experience. It can only be said whats not making it happen. Its not made to happen by a self. I dont know how it works. Theres suchnessWhat makes things happen? How does it work?
Nothing and everything. How can I be responsible if theres no self or control? And also what appears is subject to cause and effect and I want to be of benefit and not cause harm. I recently hurt my friends feelings with my words. I recognize that I was not in control of what I said. And I acknowledge the impact. And I recognize that I was not in control of feeling bad about it afterwards. And I recognize that I was not it control of apologizing and taking care with the situation and trying to make it right.What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
Thank you Rali. bottomless gratitude6) Anything to add?
Notice the tension that is connected to the wanting. Feel the sensation. What is that?I have some awareness of the beliefs and expectations that are driving this wish to have a change or shift, but I dont know how to question them without it coming from the same ignorant expectations
Do you need to know anything in order to be? Are you doing anything in order to be? Do you need to do anything in order to be? Do you need to hold on to being, because it can slip away? Or it can be taken away?i just sit and mediate and perhaps have the consolation of calming the thinking or feeling spacious. but its maybe missing the point if i just do this thing to settle instead of seeing whats really here. but i have the thought that i need to be settled in order to see what is here. so i chase after stillness everyday and i dont know what im doing or why. and i look for the self but i have some expectation for what it should be like to see that there is no self. and when nothing changes or shifts after looking, I think it doesnt work anymore. can you help me please?