That there is just awareness aware of itself

[poppyseed]

Hi Jackie
Wonderful! Do you want to give the final questions a try?

Love
Rali

[poppyseed]

Hi Jackie
How is life these days?
Love
Rali

[nicefello]

Hey Rali sorry for taking so long to get back to you. I definitely still am interested in the inquiry and I have been investigating it throughout my days. I hope to answer the final questions but I've been kind of stuck with them and feeling resistance because I don't feel confident in being able to answer the questions. When I try to explain the insight, it makes me doubt it. So I think I have been avoiding trying to answer the questions but still feeling the inquiry alive. Also I have been doubting whether I'm ready to answer the final questions because I still have a drive to more regularly experience glimpses and verification of suchness. I guess maybe I want to know it continuously and I think I may be using the inquiries as a practice, as you warned against. I've been considering what you said about it not mattering whether or not I recognize how things truly are. I have not been able to accept that or understand it or realize how its always there even when I'm not having some glimpse or direct experience. And I havent given up the effort to see it more often. Is the aim to not try to experience suchness even when I am not in a moment of recognizing it?

Thank you for your help and patience. I am committed to respond in a timely manner going forward in order to keep the momentum up

Jacory

[poppyseed]

Hi Jacory
It’s good to have you back - alive and well (hopefully)!

I hope to answer the final questions but I've been kind of stuck with them and feeling resistance because I don't feel confident in being able to answer the questions.

It will be helpful if you tell me which specific questions you are struggling with so we can inquire further if needed.
Remember, resistance just shows you where you need to inquire, nothing more. We’ve seen its empty nature.

I guess maybe I want to know it continuously and I think I may be using the inquiries as a practice, as you warned against.

Forget I said that! The “danger” is there only if there is a benefit to someone – to get “enlightened”, to improve themselves – you catch my drift, right? If it’s seen that there is no such thing/entity/whatever, than it’s not your doing anyway, it's not your practice – it just happens :). Looking, not looking, it's not in your control, otherwise you'll be looking all the time, right?! Anyway, that is the only way to see what is real and what is fiction. So keep on LOOKING :) You see, me telling you to look is just like a virus thought that is imposed on your thought system, disrupting it, sabotaging it :)). So is there something that does the looking so it can become a practice? Check!

I've been considering what you said about it not mattering whether or not I recognize how things truly are. I have not been able to accept that or understand it or realize how its always there even when I'm not having some glimpse or direct experience.

Unfortunately, thought is not equipped to take you to a place where it’s all known and understood. Logic can take you only so far as logic is kind of built on itself – concept upon concept upon concept, logically (or not) connected where basically no concept exists. Logic is empty. Do you see the problem? It’s just unknowable. Thought can only take you to a place where you accept this, and make peace with not knowing. It will try and try again until it exhausts itself and gives up seeing the pointlessness in this. The best way is to keep checking the validity of every resistant, seeking or doubtful thought. LOOK and LOOK AGAIN! That is the way ( wow, I sound like a Mandalorian :) )

Looking forward to hearing from you soon!
Love
Rali

[nicefello]

you catch my drift, right?

yes

otherwise you'll be looking all the time, right?!

yes, I see that its not a problem whether I'm looking or not because its not in my control. Looking happens when it happens and doesn't when it doesn't.

So is there something that does the looking so it can become a practice? Check!

No. I dont know where the inquires and the impulse to look at my direct experience come from and I'm not making it happen.

Do you see the problem?

yes, its not something to be reconciled within thinking

The best way is to keep checking the validity of every resistant, seeking or doubtful thought.

what does it mean to check the validity of the thoughts?

Thank you

[nicefello]

How do "you" "create these intentions"? Again are the "thinker" of thoughts?

No, I am just describing the thought about my intention that is arising. There are thoughts about how I can choose one intention or another and which one is best but I don't choose those thoughts and theres no one that they arise to.

[nicefello]

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Free will is the thought that I am an agent who is controlling my actions. In direct experience, actions just arise and there is no control or separation because there is no entity at the center.

When I am deciding what to write in this sentence, it is just coming together on its own

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

I’m finding these questions to be tedious because I don’t think there is any fundamental difference between intentions and free will and choice and control. Its the same explanation for each one. They just arise or thoughts about them arise and theres not anything to do or anyone to do it. And sometimes its recognized and sometimes its not. But every time direct looking arises, theres an experience of confirmation. I can’t choose to look directly.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

There is no control. Theres and experience of fingers are moving and pressing buttons and theres no one to make it happen

What makes things happen? How does it work?

Theres no positive answer to be given from direct experience. It can only be said whats not making it happen. Its not made to happen by a self. I dont know how it works. Theres suchness

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Nothing and everything. How can I be responsible if theres no self or control? And also what appears is subject to cause and effect and I want to be of benefit and not cause harm. I recently hurt my friends feelings with my words. I recognize that I was not in control of what I said. And I acknowledge the impact. And I recognize that I was not in control of feeling bad about it afterwards. And I recognize that I was not it control of apologizing and taking care with the situation and trying to make it right.

6) Anything to add?

Thank you Rali. bottomless gratitude

[poppyseed]

Hi Jackie
Thank you for these beautiful answers, but you are missing the first 4. Please put all of them together in one answer.
You are doing great!

No, I am just describing the thought about my intention that is arising. There are thoughts about how I can choose one intention or another and which one is best but I don't choose those thoughts and theres no one that they arise to.

Yes intentions are just more thoughts about possible actions, sometimes they coinside whith what is happening and sometimes not at all - like all these new years resolutions to eat healthy and exercise and be kind ...:)). At the end of the day it all just happens :)

what does it mean to check the validity of the thoughts?

Check in DE if it's true or not. Thoughts say funny stuff - sometimes they point to real experience and sometimes they are completely off target. It's basically where the difference between illusion and delusion lies - knowing that thoughts are useful tools but empty :)
Love
Rali

[nicefello]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

no self ever

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of a separate self is a thought. a thought that creates an apparent gap between a perceived center of experience and its objects. a thought that there is agency and that I have to control what arises in order to get a good outcome.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels like a relief to know that there is nothing to do and that I don't have to believe my thoughts. It makes it harder to cling to whats arising and clears more space for play and life expressing itself.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

it has been many shifts back and forth over a long period. seeing that theres no one to control what arises or believe in these thoughts.

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

theres thoughts about options but ultimately the decision comes of itself

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

it is an illusion to believe I create these intentions of how to be or live. actually I can just let them come and go and still be engaged with them without feeling theres any effort to realize them. when I sit for mediation, I can let the different methods for meditation arises and be practiced without feeling like I'm controlling them.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Free will is the thought that I am an agent who is controlling my actions. In direct experience, actions just arise and there is no control or separation because there is no entity at the center.

When I am deciding what to write in this sentence, it is just coming together on its own

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

I’m finding these questions to be tedious because I don’t think there is any fundamental difference between intentions and free will and choice and control. Its the same explanation for each one. They just arise or thoughts about them arise and theres not anything to do or anyone to do it. And sometimes its recognized and sometimes its not. But every time direct looking arises, theres an experience of confirmation. I can’t choose to look directly.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

There is no control. Theres and experience of fingers are moving and pressing buttons and theres no one to make it happen

What makes things happen? How does it work?

Theres no positive answer to be given from direct experience. It can only be said whats not making it happen. Its not made to happen by a self. I dont know how it works. Theres suchness

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Nothing and everything. How can I be responsible if theres no self or control? And also what appears is subject to cause and effect and I want to be of benefit and not cause harm. I recently hurt my friends feelings with my words. I recognize that I was not in control of what I said. And I acknowledge the impact. And I recognize that I was not in control of feeling bad about it afterwards. And I recognize that I was not it control of apologizing and taking care with the situation and trying to make it right.

6) Anything to add?

Thank you Rali. bottomless gratitude

[poppyseed]

Hi Jackie
Welcome home!

Thank you for your beautiful answers! It has been such a pleasure to walk beside you through the gateless gate! Your openness and willingness to look were simply awesome and made guiding you a joy.

You will receive an email notifying you of a PM from the forum, inviting you to join LU's Facebook groups. It also has other information that might be of interest to you. I will inbox you my contact details if you want to stay in touch. If you have any questions, just ask, or you can drop a line on your thread here and I will respond.

Your username will change from green to blue which indicates that you have had the realisation of no separate self. This thread will be moved to the ‘Archive’ section of the forum, but you will be able to access it.

Please don’t forget that this is just the beginning of exploring. It’s the beginning of cleaning up of all sorts of old beliefs. Emotions and feelings can show up to be seen and felt, so don’t stop looking! Please feel free to contact me, so we can have a look together, if you like.

I also think that you would make a wonderful guide, if you’re willing to explore it, when you feel ready. It can be very rewarding and it help you deepen your understanding.

Also, if you want further exploring, I'd suggest these teleconferences:
There are 3 meetings & a set of 5 videos you're invited to attend:
Thursday Meetings.
Hi Guys,
we are Luchana & Lubo, guides at LU.
Here is an invitation for you:
Join us each Thursday, 6 pm CET, UTC+1
and let's explore together what is already here.
Let's enjoy together this beauty called Life
MEETINGS ARE ON ZOOM and LIVE on YouTube.
To participate in the meetings, send a request to luchanauzunova@gmail.com
You will receive an e-mail confirming your participation and a link to join.
Looking forward to seeing YOU!
Luchana & Lubo
__________________________________________________
Meet up with Vince (For LU seekers & guides)
Monday August 14
Sydney (EST) Australia. 6 am right now
Every 2 weeks after that.
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/86991485768?p ... 12Um5DQT09
Meeting ID: 869 9148 5768
Passcode: 083035
Let him know if you want email reminders.
vinceschubert@gmail.com
__________________________________________________
Ilona's Meetings
Next group meeting on Zoom is on the 4th of September. (There was one October 9. Not sure when next one is. )
To register send Ilona an email to
admin@ilonaciunaite.com
Looking forward 🙂
__________________________________________________
(videos)
Hi everyone.
Starting on 15th of October for 5 weeks I will post a new video of guiding sessions we had with Jim.
Here is a link to the first one.
https://youtu.be/gb6FwZ6PlI4
Liberation Unleashed Direct Pointing - The Gateless Gate
Ilona
Write to them for the next meeting. Ilona’s is April 9th.
For Fetters:
Todd has teleconference group that meets - I think every 2 weeks.
There is also www.findingawakening.com but Christine has a waiting list.
And Kevin Shinilac has https://www.simplytheseen.com/ but I don't think he is guiding any more, although there are instructions on his site.

Love
Rali

[nicefello]

thank you thank you thank you

[nicefello]

Dear Rali, I'm feeling stuck. I do the inquiries and look but mabye I'm not really seeing, because it feels like I'm trying to get something out of it. And I'm doing alot of meditation perhaps in vain because I want this to be different. And I ask what is here now that wants THIS to be different? And I hear static and some birds and tnigling sensation and my fingers on the keyboard and the thinking that precedes the typing. and this less tangible sensation that is associated with the thought of 'this is restlessness. this is seeking. this is the impulse to practice. this is desperation.' im noticing that when I would ask 'what is here that wants this to be different' a while ago, i thought it 'worked' because something shifted or relaxed or i didnt feel like something actually had to change. now nothing changes when i do the inquiries but theres still drive to change or have some shift or see more clearly or release. but what could i do anyway? i just sit and mediate and perhaps have the consolation of calming the thinking or feeling spacious. but its maybe missing the point if i just do this thing to settle instead of seeing whats really here. but i have the thought that i need to be settled in order to see what is here. so i chase after stillness everyday and i dont know what im doing or why. and i look for the self but i have some expectation for what it should be like to see that there is no self. and when nothing changes or shifts after looking, I think it doesnt work anymore. can you help me please?

[nicefello]

I have some awareness of the beliefs and expectations that are driving this wish to have a change or shift, but I dont know how to question them without it coming from the same ignorant expectations

[poppyseed]

Hi Jackie

It's good to hear from you!

I have some awareness of the beliefs and expectations that are driving this wish to have a change or shift, but I dont know how to question them without it coming from the same ignorant expectations

Notice the tension that is connected to the wanting. Feel the sensation. What is that?
Of course, the tension is here because of the fear that expectations won’t be met. Just watch the wanting that comes up.
In what area does it show up the most? Where is the biggest lack felt? Feel the gap between wanting and not having, and observe what sensations are triggered when wanting appears. Bringing attention to the mechanism of wanting will reveal curious things.
Love
Rali

[poppyseed]

Hey Jackie
I only noticed your previous reply – the one before your last one

i just sit and mediate and perhaps have the consolation of calming the thinking or feeling spacious. but its maybe missing the point if i just do this thing to settle instead of seeing whats really here. but i have the thought that i need to be settled in order to see what is here. so i chase after stillness everyday and i dont know what im doing or why. and i look for the self but i have some expectation for what it should be like to see that there is no self. and when nothing changes or shifts after looking, I think it doesnt work anymore. can you help me please?

Do you need to know anything in order to be? Are you doing anything in order to be? Do you need to do anything in order to be? Do you need to hold on to being, because it can slip away? Or it can be taken away?

Wanting (thinking about how things are not perfect as they are) includes living in the present, being yourself, living fully, not wanting, stopping searching, and knowing. There are so many variations on how things can be improved. But tell me, can THIS be any different than what it is NOW? It is perfect the way it is because it cannot be in any other way. Here is a quote from Tao Te Ching:

Perfection has no contours.
Fullness is one with emptiness.
There are no straight paths to truth.
Skill is lazy in its restfulness.
Eloquence distracts.
Doing Nothing is better than doing something,
Because something is uncomfortable,
And uncomfortable are all things.
They can be spoken of, but that gives little solace.
They are not Nothingness.
Love
Rali