There is nothing

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CrystalBeach
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Re: There is nothing

Postby CrystalBeach » Tue May 23, 2023 3:38 am

Hi Dion
And where is this experiencer? Please describe the experiencer.
It’s not anything separate, it’s just being-ness. There is a sense of something being aware of the experience. It’s just part of what “is”.

No there is no evidence of a who or what, the questions are just more thought.
Are you ready to accept the answers?
Direct looking doesn’t find evidence of a self. But there still seems to be something sticky or stubborn, something that just doesn’t “get it”
Jana

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Dion
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Re: There is nothing

Postby Dion » Tue May 23, 2023 1:14 pm

Hi Jana :)
It’s not anything separate, it’s just being-ness.
Is "being-ness" the experiencer? Is being-ness an experiencer or an experience?

It’s just part of what “is”.
EVERYTHING is a part of what is. What did you mean by that? Could you explain, please?

Direct looking doesn’t find evidence of a self. But there still seems to be something sticky or stubborn, something that just doesn’t “get it”
This "sticky or stubborn" thing... is it a feeling, or a group of feelings? Or thoughts? Or both? Or is it something else?

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CrystalBeach
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Re: There is nothing

Postby CrystalBeach » Wed May 24, 2023 1:31 am

Hi Dion,
There is a shift today. It’s subtle, everything is different but nothing changed. For some reason there was a belief or fear that reality would change. That there would be a letting go of people and the physical objects. That fear or strange belief is related to a previous psychedelic trip.
People and objects are real! But there’s not a self in control! There is just seeing. There is no doer, it is so clear the label that I’m walking the dog was just a label AFTER there was walking!
Everything is lighter, thoughts and narrative are there but nothing to grab on to them.
Jana

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Dion
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Re: There is nothing

Postby Dion » Thu May 25, 2023 2:50 pm

Hi Jana :)

Good :)

The seer,
the seeing,
the seen.

Which of these do you see to be true?

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CrystalBeach
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Re: There is nothing

Postby CrystalBeach » Sat May 27, 2023 3:39 am

Hi again,
The seer,
the seeing,
the seen.

Which of these do you see to be true?
The seen - a table or object can be seen - this is true
The seeing - the eye sees an object - lights shape color and mind creates a label - this is true
The seer - there is a sensation when focusing on this seer, but it's just sensation. The mind wants to say the seer is what is aware, but then when looking for exactly where to find the seer, it can't really be found other than in sensation. Then the idea pops up, if this seer is the sensation, then it's being seen. The seer being seen then feels like another construct or concept.
Jana

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Dion
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Re: There is nothing

Postby Dion » Sat May 27, 2023 7:33 am

Hello :)
Then the idea pops up, if this seer is the sensation, then it's being seen. The seer being seen then feels like another construct or concept.
If the seer is a sensation, what is it that is witness to the sensation?

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CrystalBeach
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Re: There is nothing

Postby CrystalBeach » Mon May 29, 2023 3:48 am

Hi Dion,

During looking there is nothing found that is witnessing the sensation.

It feels like bouncing back and forth between an experience in the body of no self and of getting into my head and thinking about it. I went to Vince's zoom meeting today and it is apparent that something sticky is still hanging on. Things shifted a bit when I felt like giving up.

The thing that hangs on feels like doubt, thoughts that say "your not really getting it".

Jana

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Dion
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Re: There is nothing

Postby Dion » Mon May 29, 2023 2:27 pm

HI Jana :)
It feels like bouncing back and forth between an experience in the body of no self and of getting into my head and thinking about it
1-An experience in the body of no self. - A passive experience.
2-And of getting into my head and thinking about it... Is this passive or active? That is to say, is it happening by itself, or are you making it happen/responsible for it?

The thing that hangs on feels like doubt, thoughts that say "your not really getting it".
Examine this. Is there a thing that hangs on? Find it's location(s) and expression(s).
To whom or what is the phrase "you're not really getting it", being directed? Also, what is cognizant of the phrase?

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CrystalBeach
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Re: There is nothing

Postby CrystalBeach » Tue May 30, 2023 8:40 pm

hello again

A
nd of getting into my head and thinking about it... Is this passive or active? That is to say, is it happening by itself, or are you making it happen/responsible for it?
It just happens like everything else.
Is there a thing that hangs on? Find it's location(s) and expression(s).
oh yes, this is just another thought :)
To whom or what is the phrase "you're not really getting it", being directed? Also, what is cognizant of the phrase
When looking for something that is cognizant of that phrase, again there is nothing found but sensations.
thanks for pointing that out Again :)
jana

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CrystalBeach
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Re: There is nothing

Postby CrystalBeach » Mon Jun 05, 2023 2:20 am

Hi Dion,

Just checking in with you, hope all is well.

jana

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Dion
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Re: There is nothing

Postby Dion » Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:34 am

Hello Jana :)

Nice to hear from you.
I was waiting for you to tell me what was happening.
The last response I got from you didn't leave me with anything to work with.
I wondered if you were taking some time for yourself.

I'd like to help and guide you, but I need information about what your experience is right now.

Looking forward to hearing from you soon :)

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CrystalBeach
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Re: There is nothing

Postby CrystalBeach » Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:35 pm

Hi Dion,

Perhaps we can "go back" a little. I don't know if its going back, here is my experience.

It's clear that thoughts come up, no idea what the next one will be.It does appear that everything is just happening. There is nothing found that is controlling an outcome, but all of that doesn't relieve suffering. There is attachment to outcomes and dissapointment and wanting experiences to be different. When looking, no, there is no way it could be different it's just reality but that doesn't mean that attachment to an outcome goes away, there is still suffering.

Over and over when looking, thoughts arise, actions are just taken, the laundry is done the email is answered. None of it feels like a personal self doing it. My body will suddenly be in the laundry room removing clothes from the dryer with no thought of .. ok now I need to climb the steps, open the laundry room door. It will just happen.

And in many ways interactions with other people are far less triggering, someone is just speaking words that may have brought up intense emotions.
There is sooo much letting go to the grip of thoughts and stories and seeing there are sensations that arise and leave. But then again there is a desire for some experiences to be other than what they are.

jana

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Dion
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Re: There is nothing

Postby Dion » Tue Jun 06, 2023 1:58 pm

hi Jana,
There is nothing found that is controlling an outcome, but all of that doesn't relieve suffering.
There is suffering.
But WHAT is suffering?
There is attachment to outcomes and disappointment and wanting experiences to be different.
Is this a problem? For who?
What is attached to what?
What does attachment feel like? Can you locate the experience and observe and describe it?
But then again there is a desire for some experiences to be other than what they are.
Does this desire arise of it's own accord? Automatically?
Who or what is this a problem for?

Dion

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CrystalBeach
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Re: There is nothing

Postby CrystalBeach » Wed Jun 07, 2023 12:46 am

Hi Dion
But WHAT is suffering?

"What" as in what could be suffering? or "what" as in a definition? It feels like a tightness in my face and chest. It's not clear "what" it's found in thoughts and sensations.
Is this a problem? For who?
It's a problem in that it feels awful in the body, it's a problem for the ego, for the feeler of the feelings.
What is attached to what?
This sticky collection of feelings is attached to an outcome that will feel better.
What does attachment feel like? Can you locate the experience and observe and describe it?
Attachment is not a feeling, there is resistance to the way it is and the resistance feels like a heaviness and a tightness in the chest and it feels like heaviness around my eyes and forehead, as though the brain is tired and hurts.
Does this desire arise of it's own accord? Automatically?
The desire or thoughts arise and there is just a heavy feeling in the chest
Who or what is this a problem for?
It's feelings and sensations in the body that feel awful that don't want to be felt..
jana

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Dion
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Re: There is nothing

Postby Dion » Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:31 am

Hi Jana :)
"What" as in what could be suffering?

Yes, that's what I mean. I should have taken the time to clarify.
What could be suffering?

It's a problem in that it feels awful in the body, it's a problem for the ego, for the feeler of the feelings.

What is the ego? Where is the feeler of feelings?

This sticky collection of feelings is attached to an outcome that will feel better.

Is this "outcome" just another thought?

Attachment is not a feeling, there is resistance to the way it is and the resistance feels like a heaviness and a tightness in the chest and it feels like heaviness around my eyes and forehead, as though the brain is tired and hurts.

So, attachment = resistance? And resistance = a set of sensations?
Do these sensations happen by themselves?

To whom or what are sensations a problem?

What is the story being told when these sensations are being felt?

What is the response to these sensations?

It's feelings and sensations in the body that feel awful that don't want to be felt..

Don't want to be felt by what?

Dion


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