It seems close but yet so far

[CuriousBeing]

A lot of frustration, anxiety, despair and aversion since starting this. It feels very debilitating but I'll stick with it..

[Ronaldo]

Sometimes it's a good idea to take a break. How about that, maybe take a couple of days off?

[CuriousBeing]

Rather, look at an object, ask
what is receiving these colors?
where are these colors perceived?

switch to sound
Where is this sound known?

Switch between an image and a sound
can both be known at the same time?
Where are they known? Same place? no place?

I meant since starting this kind of inquiry. So either it's working or I need to take a break as you suggested.

[CuriousBeing]

I'm tired of living like this however. I'm desperate to see.

[Ronaldo]

Is there someone or something really feeling frustration?
A body sensation and thoughts coming up about not liking that body sensation - what makes that you?
What is believing these thoughts?

More frustration? So take time off.

[Ronaldo]

Is there a Simon believing and observing the frustrating thoughts?
What if the thoughts are just there, not belonging to anyone?
Can they just be there?

[CuriousBeing]

Thanks Ron, I'll stay with these for tonight. I'm determined to see this through and I appreciate you sticking with me through it so far!

[CuriousBeing]

I had a glimpse earlier after a moment of intense sadness and hopelessness. I looked for a feeler, or see-er but found nothing but space. Vast open space. There was no me but at the same time everything felt like me. It didn't seem to stick although I do feel calmer. I'll keep looking for the agent?

[Ronaldo]

You may be expecting some cosmic shattering experience, but that's not what usually happens.

Let's take another look at thought and the gap between them.
For at least 10-15 minutes quietly somewhere, several times throughout your day. Close the eyes and just notice thoughts, be they words, mental images or snippets of music etc, but don’t engage with any of them. If you find yourself engaging with thoughts, just gently bring your attention to observing each thought.

When I ask you to look for the gap, the purpose of that looking is to slow thoughts down, as thoughts can be like a machine gun and fire a multitude of thoughts, one after the other and be very noisy, subtle, chaotic or calm. The objective of this exercise is to observe each and every thought as it arises and subsides.

1. Notice the current thought that is present.
Like when you are sitting with eyes closed and all that is seen is the ‘blackness behind the eyes”. A thought might arise “oh look, there is a red glow appearing in the darkness behind my eyes” or “it feels strange sitting here watching for thoughts” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” – whatever thought is appearing.

2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.

3. Then wait for the next thought to come.

4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.

5. Then wait for the next thought to come.

6. Repeat #4 and #5 many-many times.

Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought arises.

This is how to observe your thoughts:-
 Watch how each thought arises and subsides
 Watch and observe the gap (be it a short subtle gap or a long gap) between each thought
 Notice how the current thought is passing,
 And watch and wait for the next thought to arise/appear.


Try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. This helps you to see each thought as it appears. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. Let me know how you went with observing thoughts as they appeared and disappeared. What did you notice?

[CuriousBeing]

I don't see how this will help in this case. This morning I felt miserable but then stepped back and watched the story and the sensations and the thoughts. I stopped and questioned. I looked and said "The thoughts are not me, thinking isn't going to help me here and I looked at what is here. What is feeling and hearing and thinking and there was nothing but space. The feelings subsided once they stopped being fed by thoughts.

I'll give the exercise a go if you think it's necessary however for the most part I find I'm able to catch my thoughts when they come up and I question them. "Who said that?" "What is here witnessing this thought?" And often it gets quieter and quieter.

[Ronaldo]

Watching the thoughts come and go, while not engaging is worth doing again and again, and I thought this could be helpful.
What seems to be causing you sadness?
Is this coming from the inquiry, or there was much sadness before?
What about anxiety? What brings that?

[CuriousBeing]

What seems to be causing you sadness?

My thoughts leading me to question my meaning and doubt myself. It is seen but hard to not get involved when emotions get intense.

Is this coming from the inquiry, or there was much sadness before?

The emotions were present before. I've been having bouts of sadness for the past five years although since yesterday they seemed to have returned. Might be a sensation this body wakes up with from time to time and the thoughts latch on and say "I'm not enough" "I could be better" and so on so fourth. The inquiry brought up some fear and frustration but only because my mind tries to understand or wants to have it now.

What about anxiety? What brings that?
Anxiety is also brought upon by thoughts but they vlame.tbe external. "That's why I'm sad and anxious!"

[Ronaldo]

We may have done something like this before, no matter:
Bring up a thought that causes you sadness "I'm never going to get this" or something else.
Find a sensation that arises with this thought, let it be there.
Sensation may start shifting to another area, or another thought may change the emotion (e.g. it can move from sadness to stress).
Continue to follow the sensations, noticing the thoughts but not following them, not analyzing them. The thought is acknowledged, but don't get into it, snap out.

Notice what that sadness sensation is "made of", go into it and let it be there without backing off, not thoughts, the sensations alone. Investigate the phenomenon, not looking for any result.

When it subsides, bring it up again and repeat that.

What do you find?

[CuriousBeing]

Very clearly what was seen was the thought that brought a sensation in the body. Thoughts kept on but let be. Sensation was watched, thoughts came up explaining why but let be. Sensation went away. Very easily I could reproduce this and stay focused.

I've been feeling out of touch with most people for a few years now after a trippy weed experience. I understand "no-self" is not a state but is it possible that I saw this years ago but didn't realize it because I expected it would be different? Could I be seeing it now but think it's not it?

[Ronaldo]

You keep speculating and asking me to speculate with you 😊
Does it matter if you did or didn't? What matters is what is NOW.
Is there identification with the sadness, fear, anxiety? Are these perceived as happening to poor me?

And the emotional work I just gave you can't be seriously done in 5 minutes, this is not an instant awakening course, mix the powder, add a cup of water and stir for 5 minutes.