The Gate

Hi Kay,

There are little insights that pop up now and then.

There’s a sense that life is happening without actors or doers. There’s more of a trust in it. For example, when I remember to do certain things such as taking out the trash or having to meet someone, I don’t actually “remember”. The thoughts about these things having to be done just come up by themselves from nowhere. I don’t do anything to make them appear.

There’s also a sense that I’m not actually something that does things. Things appear, things happen, but I don’t do them.

I think for now I’m happy with concentrating on the emotional work that we have begun doing.

Thank you so much for your guidance and support throughout this inquiry. I’ve learned so much from you.

Allen

Hi Allen,

Great to hear that insights keep popping up and that you have noticed that there is no doer of doership!

I'm going to post you the questions that are given everyone to see where they are at, and to see if a shift has happened. It is up to you if you would like to answer them or not. If you decide to answer them, would you answer ​what's true for you rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer. Also please provide examples where asked.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Share in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?

Kay

Hi Kay,

Sure, I can take a shot at these questions.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

No, there never was.

2) Share in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?

Thoughts arise with thought content centered around a separate self that doesn't exist in reality. When these thoughts are believed and identified with, the illusion of being a separate self appears. This is like being absorbed in a movie you forget you are watching.

Through the inquiry, thoughts were seen for what they really are and reality was seen for what it really is.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels more relaxing to see this. Before, there was still the story of a me doing an inquiry, trying to get something, trying to see something, having doubts. But all this is seen to be part of the story of the separate self that is appearing in thought.

There's more of a faith in life. It just runs itself.

Things are a lot simpler. There's just this. Just now. Just this experience. Nothing more. No need to understand.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

Getting my expectations out of the way and seeing what is really here in reality. Also the nature of thought. The nature of thought is really crucial to look at as identification with thought is what creates the illusion. I hadn't looked into the nature of thought in actual experience before this inquiry. When thought is seen for what it really is there is a lot less confusion.

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

Thoughts arise and actions happen. This is how things work. There is nothing behind the thoughts and actions. There is nothing that drives the thoughts and actions. Sometimes there aren't really many thoughts and actions just happen on their own.

Some examples:

Typing this response: Thoughts come and typing happens.

Walking, changing clothes, taking a shower, eating, washing dishes: All this happens on it's own without much thought.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

Nothing really. Things just happen.

Example:

I remembered I had to take out the trash today: The thoughts just came that the trash had to be taken out. I didn't do anything to make them appear. They just did. Then follow up actions happen on their own. I don't control the actions, I don't have to think about how to do the particular actions.

6) Anything to add?

In my (albeit limited) experience, I found that the fit between the guiding style and the seeker/client can make a difference. It wouldn't be right to say that guiding style doesn't matter at all. If there is a guide who's particular style resonates with someone, I would encourage them to try to work with that guide.

I feel very fortunate that Kay agreed to work with me. Working with Kay has been a joy and I continue to learn a lot from her.

Thank you, Kay!

Hi Allen,

Thank you for your responses. Just a couple I wanted to dig a little deeper with.

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

Thoughts arise and actions happen. This is how things work. There is nothing behind the thoughts and actions. There is nothing that drives the thoughts and actions. Sometimes there aren't really many thoughts and actions just happen on their own.

Can you talk a little about control, free will and intention and give a couple of examples of how they seemingly work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

Nothing really. Things just happen.
Example:
I remembered I had to take out the trash today: The thoughts just came that the trash had to be taken out. I didn't do anything to make them appear. They just did. Then follow up actions happen on their own. I don't control the actions, I don't have to think about how to do the particular actions.

What about if you were late for work, or didn’t meet a deadline. What about reactions ie you find yourself getting angry, fearful, sad. What if you inadvertently hurt someone’s feelings?

Kay

Hi Kay,

Can you talk a little about control, free will and intention and give a couple of examples of how they seemingly work.

Thought content claims and makes it seem like these things are happening. The content makes it seem like there's someone here that has free will and is in control of intention/thoughts and actions.

In reality you can't tell why a particular thought appeared and not some other thought. You can't tell why a particular action happened and not some other one. There's no way of knowing what thought or action will happen next. Nobody decides what thought will appear or what action will happen. Reality is more like a stream of thoughts and actions happening rather than someone deciding and producing thoughts and actions.

Thought itself also doesn't control anything. There's no link between thoughts and actions.

Examples:

Deciding on drinking either water or orange juice: Thoughts make it seem like you seemingly have free will to choose between the two drinks. Thoughts may appear comparing the two different drinks. You can't tell how these thoughts are produced or where they come from. They just appear. Eventually one of the drinks is decided on. It also can't be seen how this deciding thought is produced. It just appears. From the beginning to the end, it's just a stream of thoughts appearing.

Having a conversation with someone: You're seemingly in control of what you're saying and in control of how you respond to someone. In reality you don't know what you're going to say next until you say it. You can't really tell how talking works. It just happens. Whatever comes out comes out. Your responses are automatic, they just happen. Even if you find yourself thinking of what to say, those thoughts just appear. There's no way you can make them appear.

What about if you were late for work, or didn’t meet a deadline. What about reactions ie you find yourself getting angry, fearful, sad. What if you inadvertently hurt someone’s feelings?

These types of things can and will continue to happen. Nobody's to blame though. They're just a part of life.


Thanks,

Allen

Hi Allen,

Thank you for answering those questions for me. I am going to get other guides to have a look at our thread to ensure that everything has been covered and that my pointing is clear. They may have further questions for you. I'll let you know as soon as I know.

Kay

Hello Allen,

It has been such a pleasure to walk beside you through the gateless gate, and a pleasure to welcome you to LU. Your willingness, diligence, persistence and dedication were simply awesome and made guiding a pleasure. the other guides looked at our thread and we got the green light, so there are no further questions for you. You will receive an email notifying you of a PM from the forum inviting you to join LU's Facebook groups, it also has other information that might be of interest to you. You and I are already connected on FB, so if you have any questions, just ask, or you can drop a line on your thread here and I will respond.

Love, Kay

Kay,

Thank you for being so generous, helpful and supportive throughout this whole process. Thank you for everything you do. You're awesome!

Talk to you soon,

Allen