The Gate

Hello Warissem,
Thank you for the early post. Fantastic timing!

Most of us think that they do chose objects, what to think or what to do. I want to clarify this topics with you.

There is a great clarity about thoughts. I don’t choose what to think. Thoughts keep arising about different things.Thinking is happening. It is like radio is keep switching to different stations every few seconds.

“Take two objects, a cup of tea and a cup of coffee (or whatever), then sit and see if you can find the choice-point where you could go either way. Describe how choosing happens.”

Very interesting experiment!
So For lunch I made two different chapaties. One stuffed with cauliflower and the other stuffed with potatoes. I sat down to see which one I would eat first. I wasn’t sure.There was seeing, There was smelling and there was touching. There was familiar smell in both of them but still couldn’t decide which one to have it first. There was no choice point where I could have gone.
Eventually I went to the one which was nearer to my left hand as I do most things with my left hand.
As I started eating I felt the need to have pickle with it. So there was a choice again. Do I have a mango pickle or lemon pickle. This time it was easy to make a choice because I was talking my sister day before yesterday and she said she had made lime pickle and it’s really nice. That information was still fresh. Thought came about the lime and choice was made like that.

Last experiment was with tea and coffee. I made a cup of tea and a cup of coffee. I sat down to see which one I am going to choose. Both tea and coffee looked similar. When I smelt them there was a thought that a Coffee is going to taste nice because of its strong aroma. Again I noticed that tea was nearer to my left hand so tea was chosen.Next I had a sip of coffee. I didn't enjoy it. So I end up having tea even though thoughts were pointed towards coffee.

Do you chose what to do ? Is there a doer ?

I don't choose what to do. It just happens. There is no doer doing it.

Do you chose thoughts ? is there a thinker ?

I don't choose thoughts.They just arise. No there is no thinker

Is there a decision maker when a choice is made ?

There is no decision maker when the choice is made.


Thank you for this exercise
Mamta

Morning Warissem,

Do you chose what to do ? Is there a doer ?

This question is still bothering me. I am still not seeing it. There are moments when I see it but not all the time as I see clarity in thoughts and decision making.
Mamta

Hi warissem,
Is there any post for me today?
Mamta

Hi Mamta

Good observations.

Do you chose what to do ? Is there a doer ?

This question is still bothering me. I am still not seeing it. There are moments when I see it but not all the time as I see clarity in thoughts and decision making.

Yes, it is difficult to admit that you are not the doer of deeds but you will see the truth of it through this exercise :

You look at what is been done during a half day then write down what you see. Examples :

Are you breathing ?

Does walking need you to happen ?

Look at what is going on during washing dishes for example, is there a doer there ?

Best wishes

Warissem


NB : I passed this two days in the mountain, I apologize to make you wait a whole day for my post.

Hi Warissem,
How are you?How was your trip ?

Are you breathing ?

No, I am not breathing. It’s just happening. I become aware of that every now and again.

Look at what is going on during washing dishes for example, is there a doer there ?

I was going to cook carrots today.I saw that peeling and chopping was just happening.Then cooking was just happening.There was no doer doing anything.The hands moving to do the next and the next step.

Similarly I went for a walk. It was snowing here today so there was seeing of wrapping in warm clothes and taking care while walking slowly on the pavements.walking was just happening.
Also eating and talking was just happening.

Although I don’t see doer it is difficult to admit that there is no one. It’s all just happening.I am keep checking what is been done and who is doing it.
Mamta

Hi Mamta

Although I don’t see doer it is difficult to admit that there is no one. It’s all just happening.I am keep checking what is been done and who is doing it.

Fine, there is no doer but it is difficult to accept this : we have learnt from the early age that a verb needs a subject, it is a conditionning which is perpetuated in the language. Good news : after you have seen that there is no separate self, no you, you cannot unsee it.

Feel free to expose here any doubt about the seeing of no you, no separate self . I want to be sure that everything is clear for you before I ask the final questions.

Best wishes, keep looking

Warissem

NB : In the mountain, I enjoyed fresh air and beautiful views, it was a little bit cold on saturday.

He Warissem,

Fine, there is no doer but it is difficult to accept this : we have learnt from the early age that a verb needs a subject, it is a conditionning which is perpetuated in the language. Good news : after you have seen that there is no separate self, no you, you cannot unsee it.

Reading this felt strange. At the moment I am Keep Looking and enquiring. keep looking at the patterns through which there is happening and life operating.
You say,once you see ,that there is no separate self, you can’t unsee it . What happens when you go back to old habits? Doesn’t separate self start to operate again?

Hi Mamta

You say,once you see ,that there is no separate self, you can’t unsee it . What happens when you go back to old habits? Doesn’t separate self start to operate again?

Separate self never was at the beginning, before you come to this forum. It was existing only as thoughts, it continues to exist as thoughts. Before the seeing, there is a belief in the existence of a separate self, after the seeing you know definitely that a separate self does not exist. It is like believing in Santa Claus when you were a child, when you grow up you know definitely that Santa Claus is a picture, a story. Sure, there will be arising of the concepts "I", "me", ... but you know for sure that they are only concepts without any substance.

There is no you to go back to old habits, seeing is happening, hearing is happening, ... The direct experience is the clue at any time.


If there is still a doubt let me know.

Warissem

Hi Warissem,
I sat down to see if there was any doubt about the separate self. But there was a clear seeing that it is only a concept without any substance.
The direct experience is the way forward.
finely ,there is seeing, there is hearing, there is touching,there is tasting and there is smelling and life is happening.

Santa Claus reference was brilliant.

Thank you for your guidance and support 🙏🏽


Mamta

Hi Mamta

Great. There are the final questions for you :

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?


Best wishes

Warissem

Dear Warissem,

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

There is no separate entity ‘self’ ‘me’ ‘I’ at all, anywhere, in any shape or form. It never was. It only existed in thoughts. It's home was an unquestioned mind.


)

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of separate self is a belief that I am the doer of everything. I am working hard to run this life. If ‘I’ don't think or make things happen nothing will happen. This illusion is like a snow ball effect. As the ball (we are getting older)is rolling more and more snow getting stuck onto it. Hence the illusion is growing and you never see anything beyond the illusion.
This starts from very young age with ‘my name’, ‘my family,’ ‘my toys’, ‘my body’, ‘my personality’ etc.To protect this my list ‘I’ is born. Identify is born. To protect this ‘I’ the illusion of separate self is born.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels great. It’s like light bulbs are lighting up followed by the smiles.Before this dialogue there was attachment to the story and frowns on face and suffering. Since there is a seeing of no separate self, there is peace, there are less thoughts, there is no restless energy .

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

There were many small steps which helped me see the absence of the separate self but the last bit that pushed me over was when you explained about thoughts and the beliefs in them. There was reading of that paragraph many many times and it stayed with me. That night I could sleep well so I started to “Look” .At first it was difficult to know what my beliefs were , let alone confronting them. I stayed in the present moment and realised I had so many beliefs. One by one I started confronting them as I was confronting there was seeing of a fugue of green and blue colours.(that used to be my dress )At the end there was a seeing that there was nothing in that figure. After that there was a good clarity and peace.


5)

Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

There is no doer behind decision, intention, free will, choices or control. The intention, decision etc are all thoughts. I superimpose it’s stamp which makes it seem like I decide , I choose, I plan etc . During this dialog I looked at what intention were, what choices were, how I make decisions and it was realized that most choices were made on the basic of past experience or influenced by media or situations. In reality everything is just happening.Life is just happening and unfolding itself. It's not happening to anyone. I am responsible for nothing. I just trust life trust the process of life.

Anything to add?

I would like to add a Massive thank you for showing me how to Look”. How to stay present and how to use senses. Now I enjoy looking and being present. This morning when I sat down to look -The question came up ,how is life unfolding in the absence of separate self”. This question stayed with me all day. The answer was that life was happening before seeing and life is happening after seeing .The difference is the awareness. Now I am aware. Thoughts are still arising but there is seeing of thoughts as thoughts. Nothing else.

Thank you for your patience and guidance.
Kind Regards
Mamta

Hi Mamta


I like this "snow ball" example. I have to submit your thread to my fellow guides if they may have questions. It would take few days.

Thank you and best wishes

Warissem

Hi warissem,
Thank you!
Regards
Mamta

Hi Warissem,
Thank you for your guidance 🙏🏽

I am very grateful to you for walking some steps with me.
Can you please guide me to the next steps🙏🏽
Kind Regards
Mamta