So tired of the search! Please help me find the Truth

[Vivien]

Hello,

I hear your frustration. My words might not make sense, but what you had is an experience. All experiences are fleeting.

But Vivien, It was experienced here how all the conditioning can play out however it wants, but there was noone to suffer it! Suffering is optional,it is present only if the belief is there is a sufferer. All else, like self-pity, guilt, shame, pain, whatever...it still ocurs, it wasn't erased, I dont want it erased, but it was seen that self is only illusion , so all those experiences were leading to thin air! They werent felt personsl. And now they are leading back to me! Why the illusion is believed in, even when it was seen its futile!?

It is because of the reasons I mentioned before. You had an experience where no thoughts were believed... but that cannot be sustained because all the traumas and emotional wounds, that are the foundation for identifying as a person, have big gravitational pull, like a magnet.... so identification happens again and again. That's why I said for that different kind of inquiry is needed after the self illusion is reliably seen through.

And by reliably I don't mean that special state/experience you had. Rather what I mean that the absence of an autonomous entity, with will and control can be seen reliably every single time when looking happens. Not 24/7, but reliably when looking.

so look at this now:

Where is the person, the I that is upset and frustrated?
Where is the frustrated one? Where exactly?

Vivien

[IstinSkiat]

Hello Vivien, firstly I'd like to express my gratitude for your time with me. Big Thank you and a virtual hug!

So I intentionally wasn't quick to answer, because I wanted your words to sink in with me.

My words might not make sense, but what you had is an experience. All experiences are fleeting.

At first your words made me a little defensive, like I was defending my experience as something worth full, and I didn't like your words "Nothing special". But now I'm so thankful for this pointer, because I could have easily waisted few months at least figuring it out by myself. It was actually worth full experience, to show me experientially what it is to "abide in awareness" , but yes, it was only an experience and it came and went away.
Now I get back to your pointers again and again and I even go back to the memories of our skype session from two years ago and I remember back then you've told me that I have to deal with my tendencies and trauma whether before, or after realizing "no self", but I didn't listen, I really expected that when self is seen as an illusion, all trauma and conditioning will not matter anymore.

Rather what I mean that the absence of an autonomous entity, with will and control can be seen reliably every single time when looking happens. Not 24/7, but reliably when looking.

Another great pointer. My expectations was a permanent shift, so its good to know it was false expectation.
And for now I can't say it's seen reliably every time I look, but its getting there.

Where is the person, the I that is upset and frustrated?
Where is the frustrated one? Where exactly?

Only exists as thoughts, as a story. No real location, nothing to prove it is more real than Donald Duck. Contemplating this brings peace as current experience. But now I know chasing peace, or actually any experience different from the current is not good.
So I try to directly look as many times as possible throughout the day and be with what is. I see more and more that the so called "unwanted experiences" contain the key to emotional freedom, but i have to go directly trough them, not around them.

[Vivien]

Hi,

Sorry for my late reply and thank you for your honesty.

I see more and more that the so called "unwanted experiences" contain the key to emotional freedom, but i have to go directly trough them, not around them.

Yes, exactly.

But there is a difference between 'emotional freedom', and the person who wants to be free and believes that he is not free.

So look at this:

Where is the one right now who is not fee?
Find that one.... find the person who is not free... localize it.. and describe it as precisely as you can without adding anything extra.

V

[IstinSkiat]

But there is a difference between 'emotional freedom', and the person who wants to be free and believes that he is not free.

I see the difference! The one that wants to be free is the fictional character, the me. He(It, I...) cannot be found in reality. I can find "him" only in the story of me, nowhere if I look directly here, now.

But emotions are real, they are perciveble in DE. And therefore they can be dealt with by practice. And the practice is to let them be fully as they are, not avoiding them, even embrace them as true messengers which show reality outside thinking. This practice is not easy and can't be practiced all the time here, as mind with stories is still believable in daily life, but sometimes it works and its wonderful.

Maybe rushing is not good idea, maybe the whole experience needs time to change for the better, even though there is no such thing as "time" or "better" in reality (DE)...so confusing.

[IstinSkiat]

Does my post makes sense, or am I lost in stories again?

[Vivien]

Yes. Now look at this:

The one that wants to be free is the fictional character, the me. He(It, I...) cannot be found in reality. I can find "him" only in the story of me, nowhere if I look directly here, now.

Look for the one that is looking?
What/who is it that is looking?
What or who is making looking happen?
Where is the doer?