The Gate

Hi Jadzia,

1. No, there is no separate 'self', 'me' or 'I' at all, anywhere, in any shape or form and there never was.

2. The illusion of a separate self is believing there is a separate person with a free will who is the doer and the decision maker for the body. This belief starts in infancy when the feeling of 'I', 'me' and 'mine' develops. As the years go by the story of 'me' grows acquiring more depth and 'meaning' giving us an overall image of who we are and our personalities. So we're living life thinking we are separate and in control of our actions. We see all people living in the same way, with their own agenda. Our automatic thought processes bombard us with thoughts that support and defend this image of a separate self.

3. To see through this illusion is freedom. There is no longer anything to defend, no image to protect, nothing to believe in and worry about. The thought process loses it's depth and it's importance. Life becomes easier with a relaxed movement.

4. During the dialogue there were tasks that had a big impact, such as moving the arm and the realization of lack of control, and the exercise thinking about a character labelled 'friend' and then a character labelled 'Margaret'. But still later on there was a lot of confusion. It was when I went away for the week that everything seemed to just fall into place. There was such an ease to life without any effort. I started thinking, 'what's happening, this is wonderful'.

5. Decision just happens.
Intention is thoughts just happening.
Free will does not exist.
Choice just happens
Control, there is none.
Life makes things happen.
I don't know how it works.
I am responsible for nothing.

Love M

Thank you for the answers.

There is no longer anything to defend, no image to protect, nothing to believe in and worry about.

Would you say that all beliefs and identifications are gone?

Our automatic thought processes bombard us with thoughts that support and defend this image of a separate self.

Would you say that all thoughts are automatic, repetative or do you find others?

To question 5: Could you give examples how the different points show in your life right now?

And please could you elaborate a bit more on the changes in your life now?

Love,
Jadzia

Hi Jadzia,

Would you say that all beliefs and identifications are gone?

Yes, I would say that all beliefs and identifications are gone, but they linger in my thoughts.

Would you say that all thoughts are automatic, repetative or do you find others?

Some thoughts do not have 'me' as their basis and may seem more practical and informative but their content is still based on past experiences.

To question 5: Could you give examples how the different points show in your life right now?

Decisions: I used to believe that 'I' was making the decisions as thoughts came and went indicating .what decision to make, whether it was right or wrong and feelings of stress often followed followed by more thoughts. Now the thoughts still come but they have no impact because there is no decision to be made.

Intention: 'I' used to have intentions to do this and that, but intentions were always about me doing the planning, there was always me. But there is no me, there is no one to plan.

Free will : I used to think 'I' had free will, but there is no me to have free will.

Choice: 'I' believed that 'I' made the choices in life, hence they were part of who 'I' am today. But this image is an illusion of a separate 'me', there is no one to make a choice.

Control: I used to think there was a 'me' behind everything who was in control of life experiences, I was the doer making all the decisions and if things went wrong I was responsible. Thought after thought strengthened this belief. But having seen through the illusion of a separate self, there is no one to be in control, no one to control.

And please could you elaborate a bit more on the changes in your life now?

Life is a great deal more enjoyable now and there is a new type of freedom.
It is happier and calmer. I no longer care about what people think, whether I'm right or wrong, whether I make mistakes. I like people, everything just seems easier and works itself out without any effort. Also, my thoughts seem to have lost strength as they are observed calmly.

I used to have a re-occurring dream about going into a major exam without doing any work for it at all. I've had this dream for years on and off. Last night I had the dream but when I was going into the exam I changed my mind and said I don't want to do it and just walked away. This sounds ridiculous I know.

Love M

Yes, I would say that all beliefs and identifications are gone, but they linger in my thoughts.

Have they been ever in an other place than in thoughts?
Do the thoughts stay?
It is good to go on observing thoughts in a kind way and have a look at beliefs and identifications - they will dissolve, sometimes gracefully without being noticed, sometimes it might need compassion and a bit of patience.

You didn't really give examples. Can you give some examples from daily life? Like for example choice or doing happens now.

Thanks,

Jadzia

Hello Jadzia,
Thank you again for your patience.

I'm replying on my phone today and am unable to cut and paste for quotes.

Beliefs and identifications are in my thoughts only, and the thoughts do stay.
Throughout the day I still have thoughts that believe in a separate self even though I know there is no separate me. It's as though I'm watching myself for a moment and then it passes.

Sometimes during the day I might have a worrying thought, this is then followed by another thought saying, 'don't worry, what will be will be, its out of your control' and I relax.

Sometimes I notice myself acting without thinking, other than to think afterwards that I'm acting without thinking.

But there is also an overwhelming feeling that it's all good.

Love M

Still no patience is needed here, you are walking your steps. :-)

Throughout the day I still have thoughts that believe in a separate self even though I know there is no separate me. It's as though I'm watching myself for a moment and then it passes.

All thoughts are fine. In the beginning one reminds oneself that there is no separate me/self again and again, after a while it drops.
Just asking: Can an I watch itself?

Sometimes I notice myself acting without thinking, other than to think afterwards that I'm acting without thinking.

Yes, just acting, action happening. Thoughts will ‘explain’ later what happened, simply doing their job, right?

But there is also an overwhelming feeling that it's all good.

Yeah, it is all good. Even if it is not good – all is well. Life happening, unfolding.....

Love,
Jadzia

Hi Jadzia,

Thank you.

Just asking: Can an I watch itself?

No, it is just thoughts thinking that 'I' am watching the 'me'.

Yes, just acting, action happening. Thoughts will ‘explain’ later what happened, simply doing their job, right?

yes, when an action happens without thoughts, thoughts do follow immediately. I know this, is always the case but sometimes it does still feel as though 'I' am in control, my thoughts then remind me this is not the case.

I would like to ask you about speech, for example, I answer a question spontaneously, I say something really helpful, and I think 'where did that come from'. Whereas other times thought seems to come before speech to the point that speech is like verbalized thought.

For example recently there was some one who was very upset at work, I was sitting with a friend and I noticed her, my thought was, 'Sarah seems to be really upset'. I then said to my friend, 'Sarah seems really upset,I'll go and see her', Then I got up and walked over to her. This seems to be, thought, verbalized thought and then action. Is the automatic thought, (Sarah seems to be really upset) the instigator of the action in this case?


Love M

It all comes down to: can thoughts do something? :-)

No, it is just thoughts thinking that 'I' am watching the 'me'.

Do thoughts think?

yes, when an action happens without thoughts, thoughts do follow immediately. I know this, is always the case but sometimes it does still feel as though 'I' am in control, my thoughts then remind me this is not the case.

What exactly says that thoughts follow immediately? A thought?
Is it a feeling “'I' am in control” like in physical sensation or a thought?
Can a thought remind someone of something or does it only seem to be so?

Thoughts are made of words, which themselves are symbols trying to depict what is, giving explanations. Each word a label but the label is not that what it describes. Right?

I would like to ask you about speech, for example, I answer a question spontaneously, I say something really helpful, and I think 'where did that come from'. Whereas other times thought seems to come before speech to the point that speech is like verbalized thought.

With the second example do you know where the thoughts come from either?

This seems to be, thought, verbalized thought and then action. Is the automatic thought, (Sarah seems to be really upset) the instigator of the action in this case?

Again what tells that this happens in a sequence?
And can thought instigate something? Can thoughts do something?
Well thoughts might ‘say’ so but is it like that, can you find any proof outside of thought of this?


Love,
Jadzia

Hi Jadzia,

In response to your email, I have been looking at thought and speech a lot today and it seems to be the feeling I have overlooked.

I wont answer your individual questions but referring back to my previous example, this is how I now see it.

I see that Sarah is upset, I have a feeling, a thought comes in response to that feeling, 'Sarah looks very upset'.
I then say 'Sarah looks upset, I'll go and see her'. The speech is also a response to the feeling and would happen whether or not the thought was there. I then act, and this is also a response to the feeling.

So thought does not do anything except try to explain a feeling. Thoughts do not think.

I'm actually getting to like thoughts, they do an extremely good job.

Love M

So thought does not do anything except try to explain a feeling. Thoughts do not think.

Right, they don't do anything.
Thoughts 'try' to keep stuff together and 'do' everything to get a seemless story. One explantion coming after the other.
Look here:

I see that Sarah is upset, I have a feeling, a thought comes in response to that feeling, 'Sarah looks very upset'.
I then say 'Sarah looks upset, I'll go and see her'. The speech is also a response to the feeling and would happen whether or not the thought was there. I then act, and this is also a response to the feeling.

This sounds what we call logical, everything is happening in a sequence, a chain of reaction. This doesn't leave any room for questions, the story of what happened is tightly woven.

Can you really be sure that this is the way it happened?

If you observe action and explanations offered today:
Can you say that a thougth or a feeling is always followed by action or a speech?
Or is a thought happening as well as a feeling is happening as well as speech is happening?
Can a connection be found which connects thought to feeling, feeling to action or speech be found?

Thoughts explains everything - but does thought understand anything?

Love,
Jadzia

Hi Jadzia,

Can you really be sure that this is the way it happened?

There is definitely a feeling.
In terms of the thought that follows, to explain something you would think that understanding is necessary, but it's possible the thought could be totally unconnected to the feeling and it is just describing something without any understanding of it, ie Sarah being upset. In which case the speech would also be unconnected to the feeling and be based purely on the vision of Sarah being upset. And the action that followed would also be a response to the external vision and totally unrelated to the feeling. So, no I can't be really sure that it happened in that way.

Also, there are a lot of thoughts and feelings that are not followed by speech or action so this sequence is not always apparent. So, thoughts, feelings, speech, action are all happening in response to the senses but are totally unconnected to each other, although they can be linked by content I can see this, but it does seem strange.

Love M

Hi Jadziz,

Everything literally just happens and the only "link" is thought content, and this isn't. Real!!!!

Love M

Everything literally just happens and the only "link" is thought content, and this isn't. Real!!!!

Beautiful Margaret! How does it feel to see this?

The story of M will go on being written and there still will be a lot of I,me,mine turning up in thoughts. All is well. Life is lifing. You might find that there will be less and less explanations how or why something happens while life unfoalds and you might find that there is less you can be sure of or really know - that is fine, too.

Love,
Jadzia

Hi jadzia,
Thank you again for all your guidance on this.

Realising this is a lot to take on board, and today I have had uncertainty about many things that I have been happy with.
But overall it is a really good feeling!

Love M

Realising this is a lot to take on board, and today I have had uncertainty about many things that I have been happy with.
But overall it is a really good feeling!

Uncertainties and not knowing, mysteries are part of the moment. We have been used to the "There is an explanation for everything". To know about everything.
Can everything be known?


Let it sink in and share what you find.

Love,
Jadzia