Looking

[JonathanR]

Do you see that 'self' is like the imagined fruit?

Not really 'there'. Except as an idea?

Unlike the real fruit there is no real equivalent of the imagined self.

and yet ideas ABOUT 'me', 'self', "I' continue to appear.

Is this clear? Let me know if not.

Love Jon

[Openview]

Hi Jon,

Unlike the real fruit there is no real equivalent of the imagined self.

and yet ideas ABOUT 'me', 'self', "I' continue to appear.

Is this clear? Let me know if not.

This is clear. I love this example!

Thank you,
Samantha

[JonathanR]

Hi Samantha

Did you try the exercise for real? Yes, it is very revealing.

. Unlike the real fruit there is no real equivalent of the imagined self.

and yet ideas ABOUT 'me', 'self', "I' continue to appear.

This is not said in solely to prove to the intellect that 'there is no self'. It's real use is to reveal that thoughts about 'self' do appear.

These thoughts do appear but where is the creator of thoughts?

Is there a creator of thoughts?

What creates thoughts?

Jon

[Openview]

Did you try the exercise for real? Yes, it is very revealing.

Yes, I did do the exercise. I had done it many times before and then again, as suggested, this last week.

These thoughts do appear but where is the creator of thoughts?

Is there a creator of thoughts?

What creates thoughts?

Thoughts are automatic... they just appear... there isn’t a figuring out what to think, but that could appear to happen, it’s a thought arising on its own claiming some reality...happy, sad, right or wrong.

Sometimes there is a thought of someone waiting for a thought to arise to know what is what. Like I don’t know till the thought arises so then I will know. (Hopefully, that makes sense)

[Openview]

In addition:

On my walk...a bird, horse, a road is self evident and does not require a label even though a label often appears. The self is not self evident and is known through thought.

[JonathanR]

Hi Samantha

. The self is not self evident and is known through thought

'self' appears as thought. As the content of thought.

Is there a knower?

Is a real entity known?

Jon

[Openview]

Is there a knower?

Is a real entity known?

I can’t find a knower. A real entity is not known.

[JonathanR]

. I can’t find a knower. A real entity is not known.

Where does this leave us?

[Openview]

. I can’t find a knower. A real entity is not known.
Where does this leave us?

That's a good question.

[JonathanR]

Is there a self entity anywhere in experience?

Is there aslef here right now?


Jon

[JonathanR]

Ha ha ha!

Sorry Samantha. Typo! Aslef is a train-drivers union in the UK

I meant a self

[Openview]

Hi Jon,

[b][quote] Is there a self entity anywhere in experience?

Is there aslef here right now? [/quote][/b]

I learn something new everyday...Aslef...haha

Self entity is found only in thought. A self cannot be found except for in thought. And, thought is a temporary claim of something being a certain way or I’m doing, choosing, etc. Or it’s good bad happy sad or some long convoluted story. Thought info has no reality although it may point to something in reality like a tree.

There is an apple that I can touch, taste and see but there is no self that is found outside of a mental construct. There is a body, there are thoughts, there are sensations but there is no self running the show.

Samantha😃🍏🍎 I prefer green

[JonathanR]

Hi Samantha

. There is an apple that I can touch, taste and see but there is no self that is found outside of a mental construct. There is a body, there are thoughts, there are sensations but there is no self running the show.

That's an interesting example. What woukd you say about the apple then? Does it have self nature?

There is a label 'apple' but without that identifier what is actually experienced?


Love

Jon

[Openview]

Hi Jon,

That's an interesting example. What woukd you say about the apple then? Does it have self nature?

An apple does not have self nature. I used that example because an apple can be found but a self cannot.

There is a label 'apple' but without that identifier what is actually experienced?

An apple without a label is color, shape, weight, taste

💗 Samantha

[JonathanR]

. An apple without a label is color, shape, weight, taste

And are any of these sensations separate from the experience of them?

Is there anything that 'perceives' these sensations?

Jon