Experiencing Truth

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Alex1student
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Re: Experiencing Truth

Postby Alex1student » Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:03 pm

Here's a question, which state feels more 'selfy'. The frustrated state or the fun/relaxed state?
Ponder on that a little...
Sorry for the late response. My wife was in a car accident and I was just dealing with all of that. (Everyone is totally fine thankfully).

Been looking at your last question. Certainly the frustrated state feels more like the self. Which make sense since going to thought for answers (and problems) has been assumed to be me thinking and doing for many many years. That's the default reaction to life up until this point.

Going over the emotions and thoughts this last week there is an obvious pattern of problem after problem. There is also an obviously warped perspective on what is happening in life. Like everything that happens is personal. Ants crawling in "my" house, being overcharged for labor on "my" car, worrying about "my" future. All unquestioned thoughts from the mind which then furiously looks for a solution to a personal problem that in experience doesn't exist. This is seen now, but in the thick of it was not so clear. This all felt frustrating and impossible to solve. I have to smile because there was one moment when I was very down where i randomly smiled because I saw through some of the heavy feelings and thought how silly this is. There is a very cyclic powerful tendency to give into these thoughts. It is a step to see this though.

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Hannah B-T
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Re: Experiencing Truth

Postby Hannah B-T » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:58 pm

My wife was in a car accident and I was just dealing with all of that. (Everyone is totally fine thankfully).
Wow, I'm very pleased to hear that everyone is ok!
Certainly the frustrated state feels more like the self. Which make sense since going to thought for answers (and problems) has been assumed to be me thinking and doing for many many years. That's the default reaction to life up until this point.
Well noticed.
last week there is an obvious pattern of problem after problem. There is also an obviously warped perspective on what is happening in life. Like everything that happens is personal. Ants crawling in "my" house, being overcharged for labor on "my" car, worrying about "my" future. All unquestioned thoughts from the mind which then furiously looks for a solution to a personal problem that in experience doesn't exist.
Yup, pretty much summed it up there! It's not that this pattern is wrong per se, it's a function of life, but this is a process of ruthlessly questioning how much of that is neccesary and how much is just involved with suffering and over-complicating life.
This all felt frustrating and impossible to solve. I have to smile because there was one moment when I was very down where i randomly smiled because I saw through some of the heavy feelings and thought how silly this is.
Yes, many people talk of insight as 'the cosmic joke'.
There is a very cyclic powerful tendency to give into these thoughts. It is a step to see this though.
4 years after going through LU this cycle still is playing itself out.

The role of a guide and a forum like this is to almost help 'install the awakening virus'. Once looking at experience goes viral, the programme is running as it were, then it's just a mater of time for things to unfold further and intense guidance like this isn't needed anymore (but support to hash things out might be)

If you feel this is where things are at now, then it would be time to have a look at the standard questions.
If not, what else can I help you with right now?

x
Are there keys in your pocket? Is the sky blue? Is there an 'i, a self?' LOOK! :)

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Alex1student
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Re: Experiencing Truth

Postby Alex1student » Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:57 pm

4 years after going through LU this cycle still is playing itself out.
Interesting. I can see how noticing these things is only a beginning. There is still a deep drive to find this lack of self though in my case. It almost feels as though I have given up on the search.
If you feel this is where things are at now, then it would be time to have a look at the standard questions.
If not, what else can I help you with right now?
Question away and lets see where things stand.

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Alex1student
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Re: Experiencing Truth

Postby Alex1student » Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:38 am

I would like to look more at how the mind automatically labels things. Be it sensations (things that are seen, heard, felt, tasted, smelled, or thought). This is abundantly clear while reading a book. "I" am not deciphering every word in real time and figuring out what it means. The mind "speaks" that word in a thought a moment after the word is seen in experience. Memories of what that word means are shown through thoughts. Pointing to something in reality, but even though that thing isn't here now in direct experience. Read the word "chair" in a book. A thought image of a chair is seen. Just looking at each word at random on a page, each word is spoken clearly in a thought. Impossible to stop this "reading". No one is reading.

Look around the room just now. Trying "not" to label things. Impossible. No control. Laptop charger, white, computer "I've had this since college" (story about me), window "I should clean that" (story), chair, tan carpet, etc, etc. And this is just sight. Bring all sensation into the equation. The mind plays no favorites. Everything is fair game to be labeled. Just dawned on me that these labels are not the real thing (duh). The chair through the initial experience is the real experience. The thought afterwards is a label learned through language. A necessary tool to communicate with others. Wow, simple to say all the time that thoughts are just labels, but just seeing now that proof in direct experience. Labels.

OK...so looking just happened. Ha! I will continue to watch how the mind labels experience. This needs to really sink in.

Recently read this question in the Liberation "Look" book. Could you help point towards what this is saying?
Is there a "you" that can get lost in thoughts, or is it just the thoughts, labels which are there, until they disappear again?
So, the moments that feel like "I" have been lost in thought. Were really just moments when there are many thoughts labeling things, and when thoughts quiet down on their own (perhaps less stimuli to be labeled), there is a thought that says "wow, I just got lost in thought for a while there". I'm having a hard time seeing the reality of this statement, but it feels very important to understand.

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Hannah B-T
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Re: Experiencing Truth

Postby Hannah B-T » Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:29 pm

The looking is going in really great directions still, I find the energy and curiousity inspiring actually! But again some of this stuff (objectification through labelling for instance) is somewhat beyond what we focus on at LU. I've sent you a PM about this.
So, the moments that feel like "I" have been lost in thought. Were really just moments when there are many thoughts labeling things
Looks like you just answered your own question there :)

Here are the questions. Remember, like throughout, don't think about them, just take a fresh look and write the 'gut response' that comes from that.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from recent day to day experience.

6) Anything to add?
Are there keys in your pocket? Is the sky blue? Is there an 'i, a self?' LOOK! :)

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Alex1student
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Re: Experiencing Truth

Postby Alex1student » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:39 pm

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No there is no separate entity, self, or me, hiding somewhere or real in any way. There never was.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
Thoughts come and go on their own. Sensations and experiences are commented on by thought and assumed to be owned by them. The "I" thought comes along and takes ownership of these thoughts. I is just a label learned from living in our society. We are given a name when we are born. We are told what is right or wrong, we are singled out and told we are good at one thing, or bad at another. That we should be ashamed of what we have done, or that we should be proud of what we have accomplished. This story continues and is believed. Life becomes an ever-changing story. Every-changing thoughts commenting on everything that happens and labeling everything that is seen or heard or felt, etc., and at the center of it all there is a false "ME" who is seeminlgy responsible for it all. Funny enough "me" or "I" is just a thought like the rest of them.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
It feels like a beginning. Like things are a bit simpler and there is less mess to slog through. To be honest, a bit underwhelming. Thoughts come and go, thoughts about me and my story come and go, and body sensations come and go. "I" can still be grumpy, can still be overwhelmed, can still be sleepy, can still be happy, can still be loving, but what happens isn' so much because of me, or happening to me.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
I don't know! Many small moments of seeing where there were false walls where there used to be solid walls. Thought taken for granted as ME, seen now as just thoughts happening. Noticing no control over pretty much anything in life. No control over the body, or the mind, or what happens in life.
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from recent day to day experience.
Decision: There are no decisions. There is simply life happening and thoughts later saying that was decided by me.

Intention, free will, choice and control: There is no one to intend, to have free will, to make choice, or to control.

Things happen on their own the only way they could. I am responsible for nothing. Wake up in the morning, seeing happens, feeling happens, thoughts are experienced. Body needs to go to the bathroom, mind comments "I have to go to the bathroom" a moment later. Not needed, but still happens. Wind is felt through the car windows on the way to work. No one feels the wind, there is just feeling. Mind comments on how that feels, either "that feels nice", or "that feels bad". Neither are real. Driving happens, no one grabs a remote control in the head and moves the body in order to drive. Driving just happens. There's no one playing the game.

Sensations of Alex still happen. Can be looked at an seen to be lies though. Doubt still happens (thoughts) + emotion in the body. Mind runs on autopilot as it always has, doing its job. Body reacts to stimuli and protects itself as it always has. No one to control either, no one to experience either. Experience just happens, life just happens.
6) Anything to add?
Unless I am mistaken...there was a hope for closure and to be able to "put life away" for a while after seeing. This is silly. It's really only a beginning to see through these assumptions about the self. Many many beliefs remain, but all require a self to be affected by them. The old anxieties still come up and cycle through the mind, but there is some comfort knowing they are thoughts that haven't been questioned.

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Hannah B-T
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Re: Experiencing Truth

Postby Hannah B-T » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:22 pm

Thanks Alex, lets see if any other guides have questions.
Are there keys in your pocket? Is the sky blue? Is there an 'i, a self?' LOOK! :)

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Hannah B-T
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Re: Experiencing Truth

Postby Hannah B-T » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:10 pm

There are no further questions, have sent you a PM about what happens next.

It's been a pleasure
x
Are there keys in your pocket? Is the sky blue? Is there an 'i, a self?' LOOK! :)


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