Gratitude

[JonathanR]

Hello Siobhan,

About 'the body'. We are not looking for signs of an altered state of consciousness. Are we?

If it is seen that 'self' is an illusion or story is it also seen that such story is not literally housed 'inside a body'?

Would you say that in the playing out of the 'I' story, ''me being in a body' is one of the themes in that drama?

On the matter of examples of how things happen, sorry for pressing you on this. Its just that fairly soon I'd like to ask you six questions that we always ask, and following that, invite other guides to take a look at our conversation here?


Love

Jon

[Maluhia]

Good morning Jon,

No, I am not expecting or looking for an altered state of consciousness, though I find that I do have the expectation of feeling a little less identified with 'my' personality/ego. I do not expect that it will entirely go away; I don't know how one would be able to function in this material world if it did, however, if my shift in perspective is real, then I'm puzzled that I am not living more from a perspective of Oneness more than from the perspective of a separate self/ego.

Regarding the story of 'me' being housed inside the body, it couldn't be because 'me' is an illusion which would make the story of 'me' an illusion, therefore it couldn't possibly be 'housed' anywhere. It does seem that there is a personality that forms around a body, with beliefs, ideas, conditioning and preferences. Not that it resides inside the body, rather sort of hovers around an individual body. It learns how to do things as it develops and grows and is enlivened by the One. The personality/ego believes it is a separate entity and that it is actually controlling it's life. It controls nothing. it does nothing.
Life simply arises. There is no planning, no motivation, Life just happens. If a particular personality isn't hovering around a particular body, then 'my' personality would be able to come through any individual body, yet it doesn't.

Wait, I think I understand what you are saying. I feel like I am at the beginnings of having another realization! So, if the One/Self is not located anywhere as It is all pervading, then my previous belief that 'my' personality, and everyone else's,
hovers around a particular body is silly, another belief, could not be true. Self is everywhere. I really felt that I understood this before, yet I apparently did not. Yet, if this is true, then I/Self, should be able to experience life through anyone's body, not just this body.

Love,

Siobhán

[JonathanR]

Hello Siobhan,

No, I am not expecting or looking for an altered state of consciousness, though I find that I do have the expectation of feeling a little less identified with 'my' personality/ego. I do not expect that it will entirely go away; I don't know how one would be able to function in this material world if it did, however, if my shift in perspective is real, then I'm puzzled that I am not living more from a perspective of Oneness more than from the perspective of a separate self/ego.

Yes! I understand. Yes. Where is this 'Oneness' we have been promised!? Why does Yours Truly keep making announcements?

How about, instead of looking for evidence of oneness, look for evidence of 'not-two ness'?

If it can be found that things are actually nondual, the insight that things are really not 'separate' then no artificial or abitary separation from God or the Universe is even a possible and never has been. Do you see?

I guess the thing about Oneness is that it is supposed to be 'Oneness with something', isn't it? And this may well be God but then the thinking about oneness with God is dualistic and implies a 'self' in relation to a separate God, even if, for the time being, 'onenness' is imagined between them?

Wait, I think I understand what you are saying. I feel like I am at the beginnings of having another realization! So, if the One/Self is not located anywhere as It is all pervading, then my previous belief that 'my' personality, and everyone else's,
hovers around a particular body is silly, another belief, could not be true. Self is everywhere. I really felt that I understood this before, yet I apparently did not.

Excellent. !

Yet, if this is true, then I/Self, should be able to experience life through anyone's body, not just this body.

Probably it does! It's a big universe :-)

love

Jon

[Maluhia]

Good morning Jon,

I understand what you are conveying to me about Oneness. I do not think that there is 'me' and a separate Divine/Self/the One. There is only One, which, of course, includes the little 'me.' Perhaps my realization of this is not complete therefore I am still experiencing more of a focus on 'me.' I don't know. I do know that yesterday when I was writing to you, and had another realization, I felt a tangible sensation of release. It was as if I had been tethered and the ropes were untied and I felt myself float freely. I just kept saying 'Wow' over and over. It was big, yet it wasn't : )

Love,

Siobhán

[JonathanR]

Hi Siobhan,

I do know that yesterday when I was writing to you, and had another realization, I felt a tangible sensation of release. It was as if I had been tethered and the ropes were untied and I felt myself float freely. I just kept saying 'Wow' over and over. It was big, yet it wasn't : )

That is beautiful! Lovely. Yes, it's almost as if there has been an assumption all this time, a notion that 'I am in my body'. when the assumption is dropped it is liberating but this liberation does not then take on the form of an appearance of 'not being in a body'. Such an idea would be just as much of a conceptualisation (about how liberation should look) as 'I am in my body' has been about 'not being liberated'. Perhaps the issue is not so much whether 'I am in my body' or 'not in a body' but really seeing through the confusion of assumptions that say 'I' has to be found here, or there, or conform to being this or that?

love

Jon

[Maluhia]

Good evening Jon,

Yes, 'seeing through the confusion of assumptions', what a perfect way to put it! I think that is the case with so many things. So, where do we go from here?

Love and much gratitude,

Siobhán

[JonathanR]

Hello Siobhan,

Time to ask you those six questions. I'll split these into two lots of three. Here they are:


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.




love

Jon

[Maluhia]

Hello Jon,

Here are my answers to your first 3 questions:

1) There is no 'other.' There never was.

2) The illusion of separation seemed to begin when I was a baby. The people around me gave me a name and told me the name was 'me.' The conditioning process began as I was taught that 'I' was separate from Mom and separate from Dad, from the dog, etc. My parents were the first to teach me to label everything that I saw, felt, sensed. They would point to something and tell me what the word was for whatever they were pointing to and I was supposed to remember this word and use it to identify this 'separate' object. The brain becomes a labeling machine. Everything it sees, hears imagines, it must put it into some sort of box, it must label it, identify it. This is how I was taught to see the differences between everything. I was taught that everything was separate. After a while, I became very good at this 'game' and the illusion of separation began to slowly and nearly completely fool me. I started believing that what I had been taught was real and that I was separate from everything.

3) To see/experience the truth of 'no other' is shocking in that everything I thought was real turns out to be made up! A complex illusion that most people believe is true and accept as reality, the ONLY reality. To realize the truth is also very freeing!

Before I began my guidance with you, Jon, I felt like I knew on an intellectual level that there is no separation yet I felt completely ego identified. This was a huge conflict within me since I understand why I felt and experienced everything as separate even though I believed the opposite.

With your very skillfull guidance I was able to begin to get out of my head and inquire from a much deeper level and egan to have realizations.

I have now experienced that there is no separate entity, so separate 'me' to be found anywhere. I was amazed to discover that all thoughts simply arise. They are not there because I think them, thinking simply happens. Theree are no 'my' thoughts, there are just thoughts! It seems as if there is a 'me' that decides to do things....eat, get together with friends, go to work, read......but that, too is another illusion! There is no 'me' that decides anything, Doing simply arises.

The discovery that there is no 'me' controlling anything, that everything simply arises is so incredibly liberating! I can let go of everything because 'I' am not doing anything in the first place. Life simply arises.

Love,

Siobhán

[JonathanR]

Dear Siobhan,

Thank you so much for your answers!

I know what you mean by 'no other' for question 1 and that is a lovely answer. But may I just check with you about 'self' ? Is a 'self' found anywhere in experience?

Here are the final three questions:

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?


Looking forward to hearing from you,

Jon

[Maluhia]

Good morning Jon,

In response to question 1) I cannot find a 'self' anywhere. There is no 'self', no 'me', there is only Life/God/Oneness.

4) Your post to me on February 25th......."if it is seen that 'self' is an illusion or story is it also seen that such a story is not literally housed inside a body?"

Even though I had experienced that there is no separate self, I was so attached to the idea that even the illusion of a personality was hovering around 'my' body, that I wasn't able to see that this couldn't be.
Of course, what really happened is that being 'pushed over the edge' just happened :)

5) All of these are just ideas/concepts. Life just happens. There is no separate entity to choose or to decide anything; Life simply arises. Heart beats, blood flows, breathing breathes, there is no 'I' to make this happen. Eating, speaking, walking, looking all just arise. It appears that 'I', Siobhán, decides to phone a friend to make lunch plans, but what really happens is that an impulse arises, the 'mind' labels it and pretends to take control of the impulse and thinks it has created a thought to do something the thinks it is actually doing the 'doing.'
There is no separate entity that has control over anything or that 'does' anything. Thoughts arise and fall away, they cannot be controlled. Life arises, that is all.

6) The freedom that comes with this realization is immense! I would like to express deep gratitude and love to you, Jon,
for so patiently and skillfully guiding me to see beyond the illusion of separation. It is a very loving and selfless thing to do!
Thank you to Ilona and Elena for this process and for making it available to all.

Endless Love and Blessings,

Siobhán

[JonathanR]

Dear Siobhan,

Thank you so much for your wonderful answers! It as been such a pleasure to work with you.

I'd now like to invite other guides to take a look at our conversation. Sometimes there are further helpful questions.

I will post again as soon as I hear from them. It can sometimes take a day or so. Be sure to check back.


with love,

Jon

[Maluhia]

Thank you Jon!

[JonathanR]

Hello Siobhan,

Well, that was quick!

It is my pleasure to tell you that the other guides read our conversation and we, (unanimously), have no more questions for you. You won't need us to tell you what you already see. :-)

Congratulations!

I have sent you a Private Message about what can happen now. Please find that and let me know that you have received it? PMs are accessible on the blueish bar, near the white 'Search' bar above.

This weekend I am fantastically busy, so I will write another PM in greater detail later. Our conversation here is now at an end. But this is really only a beginning. As I say, I will write another PM later. In a few days this thread of ours will be moved to the Archive section, so it is better to rely on PM for communicating from now.


love,

Jon