The Gate

Hi Allen,

Can you find a dividing line between experience and soundtastesmellcolourthoughtsensation?
When hearing ‘tweettweet’ is a thought needed to know that it is sound? When taste appears, is a thought needed to say that it is taste?

no thought needed to knowAE. no dividing line or separation hmmmm.....just had sensatiion labeled "fear "and did blablablah.just sensation.hmmm.

Great! So did the thought story that supposedly created the sensation (fear) actually create the sensation, or did the sensation just appear, as did the thought, without anyone/anything making the sensation appear?

...experience and soundtastesmellthoughtcolor same.No separation

Yes exactly! Experience IS appearing as soundtastesmellthoughtcoloursensation – no separation.

. What I would like you to do is to go somewhere quiet, without distractions. Close your eyes and just listen to appearing sound. How is it known (what says) that the appearing sound(s) are different? LOOK carefully, are the sounds different or are they just sound?

just sound and thought appearing to assign qualities. hmmmm.... with no labels just sound. such an urge to make sound split up into different sounds. just sound appearing .wanted to say in AE again. i see just sound appearing

Yes, see how thoughts just automatically label sound, colour, smell, taste, sensation? Without the labelling and the descriptions there is just experience.

Can the colour ‘red’ be described?
Can the smell ‘coffee’ be described?
Can the taste ‘banana’ be described?
Can the sensation ‘fear’ be described?
Can the sound ‘wind’ be described?
Can the thought be described?

. When you look at the word label ‘GREEN’, what is the actual experience?
Is the colour red experienced, or is the colour green experienced as the label suggests?
Do the labels have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’?
Or do the labels suggest something else other than what is here and now (red colour)?
Is green-ness inherent attributes of the experience of the colour red, or is green just a word label on the experience of the colour red?
If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?
Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no effect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

great example. Thought green wait...words appear as thoughts and r only color like in example. and a color can point to.No a color cant do anything but be a color appearing.
labels have no affect on the actual they are only thought and cant do anything.and have no power to suggest anything.and sensations just appear. Thought cant do anything accept appear. wOW

Great! So you can see that thought say a lot of stuff and has labels and stories about everything including stories about stories! Lol

So, going back to the label ‘fear’. Can a labels/words or thought affect anything, or is there just thought ABOUT labels/words/thoughts affecting something?


Really LOOK each time when a seemingly disturbing thought appears and check:
If you made a particular thought appear
If you wanted that thought to appear in the first place
If you chose that thought to appear
Do you have ANYTHING to do with any thoughts?

Love, Kay
xx

. Great! So did the thought story that supposedly created the sensation (fear) actually create the sensation, or did the sensation just appear, as did the thought, without anyone/anything making the sensation appear?

Nope sensation just appeared and cant create anything and thought appeared and cant create anything.want to LOOK more!

. Can the colour ‘red’ be described?

never.only experience

. Can the colour ‘red’ be described?
Can the smell ‘coffee’ be described?
Can the taste ‘banana’ be described?
Can the sensation ‘fear’ be described?
Can the sound ‘wind’ be described?
Can the thought be described?

coffee never exactly only taste.banana same as coffee.fear?hmmmm....nope only sensation.wind nope only sound. Each successive example seems like thought story could make a more accurate attempt.hmmmm..... no NO NO they r all AE the rest is thought story no reality other than colorsmelltastesensationsoundthought which is actual and rest nothing

. So, going back to the label ‘fear’. Can a labels/words or thought affect anything, or is there just thought ABOUT labels/words/thoughts affecting something?

words ,labels ,thoughts cant do or effect anything.what an absolute trip!!!its what?? So label body/allen cant do anything either!!!so what the hell is happening except AE.then no meaning in any of appearance.as it is its own knowing?? All inside out now.more looking.thoughts appearing blahblahblah left with sensationthoughtscolrsoundsmell so many thoughts doing nothing and sensationcolorsmellsound
Thnkyou thankyou so much love and gratitude kay
Answer more q's tomorrow unless no sleep happens-:))
Allen

Hey Allen,

. Great! So did the thought story that supposedly created the sensation (fear) actually create the sensation, or did the sensation just appear, as did the thought, without anyone/anything making the sensation appear?

Nope sensation just appeared and cant create anything and thought appeared and cant create anything.want to LOOK more!

Great! Glad that is clear :)

Can the colour ‘red’ be described?
Can the smell ‘coffee’ be described?
Can the taste ‘banana’ be described?
Can the sensation ‘fear’ be described?
Can the sound ‘wind’ be described?
Can the thought be described?

never.only experience coffee never exactly only taste. banana same as coffee. fear? hmmmm....nope only sensation. wind nope only sound. Each successive example seems like thought story could make a more accurate attempt. hmmmm..... no NO NO they r all AE the rest is thought story no reality other than colorsmelltastesensationsoundthought which is actual and rest nothing

And a thought is appearing that says “each successive example seems like thought story could make a more accurate attempt”!

. So, going back to the label ‘fear’. Can a labels/words or thought affect anything, or is there just thought ABOUT labels/words/thoughts affecting something?

words ,labels ,thoughts cant do or effect anything. what an absolute trip!!! its what?? So label body/allen cant do anything either!!! so what the hell is happening except AE. then no meaning in any of appearance.as it is its own knowing?? All inside out now. more looking.thoughts appearing blahblahblah left with sensationthoughtscolrsoundsmell so many thoughts doing nothing and sensationcolorsmellsound

YES! YES! YES! There is no meaning in any appearance, as it is its own knowing! All appearances are ‘made from’ experience and experience knows itself! THIS is a self-aware dream!

Let’s use gold as an analogy. Gold is still gold no matter what it appears as. It can appear as a ring, a bracelet, cuff links, and a necklace, but gold still knows itself as gold, it doesn’t know itself as a ring, or bracelet and so on. The ‘form’ that the gold takes does not change the gold in any way, it will always remain as gold and know itself as gold!






Okay, I am going to throw a spanner in the works as I have gone back ‘pre-fear’ investigation and responded to some of the answers in your post as I felt that they needed a response. So some of this will sound repetitive.

. Can anyone/anything be found in AE that is responsible for choosing or deciding anything? If there is no thinker of thought and thought just appears…and there such a thing as free will and is there anyone/anything that desires/wants/needs free will?

No not in AE just appearances. thoughts cant do anything not even point. that would be another thought appearing as the thought pointing.so....what the hell is happening then. sound is itself, sensation is just appearing, taste, color. No appearance in AE does anything except appear. hmmm....cant be. yet a thought appears as "something is answering these questions" and that is just another thought appearing. It never never stops aaahhhgggg!!

Yes, there is a knowing AS soundsensationtastesmellcoloursound, it’s just that it isn’t known by a person/thing/entity. In actual experience "knowing" is just another word for "known". Is "knowing" separate from what is “known", or are they one and the same experience? Could you find a dividing line to where a thought stops and the knowing of it begins? Or where a sound stops and a thought begins and so on? So there is no “knowing” and “known”, there is only knowingknown and the knowingknown (aka experience) is self-aware.

A known (soundsmelltastesoundcolourthought) can't know and knowing can't be a known
Known IS knowing, Knowing IS known. Not two.

No there is nothing to have free will only a thought appearing with empty claim.

Terrific! Nice LOOKING. Since there is no thinker of thought then there can’t possibly be a doer, thinker, controller, decider, chooser….so there cannot be free will and cannot be anyone or anything that is responsible for what is.

now to this question.so only thought would say that.let me look some more.it cant be known as they are all appearing in AE spaceness.they all appear when they appear all at same time.no line or boundry wait... no difference just AE!!!!!!!Wait even a thought appearing to separate soundtastecolorsensation is part of the whole experience.actually thought cant separate anything cant do anything except appear as thought. WOWWWW!!!!

FANTASTIC LOOKING! It is only an appearing thought that says experience (knowingknown) is divided into different experiences labelled as colour and sound and thought and smell and taste and sensation. There is no ‘AND’. Experience (knowingknown) is indivisible and has never been divided. Coloursensationthoughtsmelltastesound are not appearing as experience…it is the other way round. Experience is appearing AS coloursensationthoughtsmelltastesound and experience is and always has been whole and complete.

How is it known that a sensation, sound, taste, thought, smell and colour are ALL different experiences….only because a thought says so and a thought knows nothing! :) Experience aka knowingknown knows itself AS an appearance labelled as coloursensationthoughtsmelltastesound.

What exactly is it that could be “bored”? Can you find anyone in AE that is “bored” or has “drama”? OR for that matter, can you find anyone that has problems, that is strategising or problem solving! :)

No thought cant do anything there is no one in AE and the thought "i'm missing something" keeps appearing in AE and the thought "is that all there is" and "so unsatisfying" and yet wow thats all thats appearingin AE .all these thoughts appearing and they mean nothing to no one and the thought "whats the point" so thats it then!! Cant even type words as they seem meaningless now

All those thoughts point to a person, that resides in a body and the body/person goes about its business for 60 or more years and then dies and that’s the end. That I find so totally pointless and meaningless and thankfully that is only a thought story! You are not a person and you certainly aren’t a thought either! How could you be either of those…neither a thought labelled as a ‘person’, or thought itself is ‘aware’ (knowing) of/as THIS.

I find it so totally miraculous and astounding is that everything is just appearing, including the stories about objects, people, life, the world etc and yet there is no one/no thing that is making anything happen or making anything appear – it just IS!

Is everything that we have done so far with regards to AE, thought, knowingknown etc clear? Do you have any questions about any of what we have covered so far?

Much love, Kay
xx

. Is everything that we have done so far with regards to AE, thought, knowingknown etc clear? Do you have any questions about any of what we have covered so far?

so the koans become clearer and there is no tree falling in the no forest.-:)not even close to seeing distance as color and thought unless i look. as is with thoughts and thinking.still try to conceptualize(thought) that there is no "me" "i" and"body" as thinking to convince as tru understanding.when with looking is seen as thought that cant do anything ,let alone "convince"or appear as "tru"or"understanding".Will look alot throughout an event filled day soundsensationcolorthoughtsmelltaste fun i'm very excited.will look at emails between 2:00-3:00 pm and after 9:30 pm pst
So love this so grateful
-:))Allen

Hi Allen,

. Is everything that we have done so far with regards to AE, thought, knowingknown etc clear? Do you have any questions about any of what we have covered so far?

so the koans become clearer and there is no tree falling in the no forest.-:) not even close to seeing distance as color and thought unless i look.

Is there an expectation here that objects will just be seen as just colour and not as an object? That somehow everything fuses into some sort of oneness?

I don’t know about you, but when driving a car, it’s handy to ‘think’ that the colour appearing as distance is distance, rather than just colour! Otherwise driving would become rather difficult!

as is with thoughts and thinking. still try to conceptualize(thought) that there is no "me" "i" and "body" as thinking to convince as tru understanding. when with looking is seen as thought that cant do anything ,let alone "convince" or appear as "tru" or "understanding".

Yes, there is no one LOOKING, the idea of a person or anything LOOKING is just an appearance in THIS. You are ‘aware’ of the story ABOUT there being a person looking and that this is what SEEMS to be happening/appearing.

It’s like a night time dream. Are you not aware of what is happening in the dream, but are you actually in the dream or is the dream in/of you? If you were actually in the dream, would you know it was a dream? And like a night time dream, are the characters in the dream actually aware of anything?

Will look alot throughout an event filled day soundsensationcolorthoughtsmelltaste fun i'm very excited. will look at emails between 2:00-3:00 pm and after 9:30 pm pst

Great to hear that you are so thoroughly enjoying this exploration and that you continuously and constantly LOOK throughout your day. Keep doing that because that is what brings the recognition of ‘no self’. Eventually the LOOKING does become automatic as does the awareness that everything that happens as the dream, is just that, a story/dream. I have no idea of your timezone, I live in Australia. :)

Okay, so let’s have a look at the idea of a ‘controller and decision maker’!

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.
2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.
Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts, examine the actual experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire…

How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Much love,
Kay
xx

. Is there an expectation here that objects will just be seen as just colour and not as an object? That somehow everything fuses into some sort of oneness?

hmmmm.... well that somehow thought story referring to object should be seen as not AE

.It’s like a night time dream. Are you not aware of what is happening in the dream, but are you actually in the dream or is the dream in/of you? If you were actually in the dream, would you know it was a dream? And like a night time dream, are the characters in the dream actually aware of anything?

hmmmm.... dream is like a thought movie appearing as AE and shit not any difference actually.I'm Not in the dream that is thought appearing.no there would be no knowing it was a dream would just be AE.characters in dream just thought story cant do anything nada

. Don't go to thoughts, examine the actual experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire…

How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

movement just happening did it a bunch of times thought came up after.thought cant do anything.So no thought cant control anything.looking for controller hmmm... nope just another thought appearing."describe"is thought story appearing.hand started and stopped without controller actually.cant find an actual decider. Told hand to move and it didnt ,told it to stop moving and it didnt stop so thought cant do anything.it turned or didn't turn 100% independant of thought to do it.trying to see if ur question appearing made it turn like a suggestion and cant find question being experienced only as thought appearing.mystery!! Bottom line cant find a reason it just happened.thought cant DECIDE and a thought appearing refering to a me cant do anything.SHIT so cause and effect just a thought story.So -AE then thought story asAE about AE.
So grateful overflowing Please more qustions .ill answer later tonight have an event
Love Allen

Hi Allen,

. Is there an expectation here that objects will just be seen as just colour and not as an object? That somehow everything fuses into some sort of oneness?

hmmmm.... well that somehow thought story referring to object should be seen as not AE

I don’t understand what you are saying here. Could you please explain it to me.

.It’s like a night time dream. Are you not aware of what is happening in the dream, but are you actually in the dream or is the dream in/of you? If you were actually in the dream, would you know it was a dream? And like a night time dream, are the characters in the dream actually aware of anything?

hmmmm.... dream is like a thought movie appearing as AE and shit not any difference actually. I'm Not in the dream that is thought appearing.no there would be no knowing it was a dream would just be AE. characters in dream just thought story cant do anything nada

Yes, and is not Allen the character appearing in the dream, so can you be that character? As you have seen, you can’t be the character in the dream, otherwise you wouldn’t be aware of the dream and all you would be aware of would be yourself as the character and nothing else. A dream does not experience the dream. The dream IS the experience.

Is a night time dream experience any different to what is considered as being an awake experience of living a life during day time hours, so to speak?

How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

movement just happening did it a bunch of times thought came up after.thought cant do anything.So no thought cant control anything.looking for controller hmmm... nope just another thought appearing."describe"is thought story appearing.hand started and stopped without controller actually.cant find an actual decider. Told hand to move and it didnt ,told it to stop moving and it didnt stop so thought cant do anything.it turned or didn't turn 100% independant of thought to do it.trying to see if ur question appearing made it turn like a suggestion and cant find question being experienced only as thought appearing.mystery!! Bottom line cant find a reason it just happened.thought cant DECIDE and a thought appearing refering to a me cant do anything.SHIT so cause and effect just a thought story.So -AE then thought story asAE about AE.

Nice LOOKING! Yes, no controller or decider and cause and effect are just thought story.


Here is another exercise that helps to see how the illusion of the body is ‘created’, so to speak. Normally we believe that sensation is coming from sight - the object seen. In this example, the object being the ‘hand’.

1. Close the eyes and hold up one hand. Pay attention only to the felt sensation ‘of the hand’.
2. Open the eyes, and now observe the hand by looking only.
3. While looking at the hand, pay attention to the felt sensations.

Repeat 1 to 3 as many times as needed and investigate…

Is there any link between the sensation and the sight, meaning that the sensation is ‘coming from’ the sight (labelled as hand) or only thoughts and mental constructs link them?

Can you see that both the ‘visual sight’ and the sensation appear simultaneously but ‘separately’, meaning that none of them is coming from the other or contained by the other? So they just appear equally, ‘beside’ each other without any hierarchy or link between them?

So you can repeat this with all of the body parts below, one-by-one. Spend some time on each of them.

- feet
- legs
- arms
- belly
- chest
- head (looking into the mirror)

Love, Kay
xx

. I don’t understand what you are saying here. Could you please explain it to me.

expectation that objects should not be seen as such.only as color. Yes and very confusing to re-read here.will try to proof better.

. Is a night time dream experience any different to what is considered as being an awake experience of living a life during day time hours, so to speak?

hmmmm... color is the same. thought appears the same .sensation is same.sound is the same.harder to see with taste and smell.hmmmm.... if tastesmell appeared in dream then would be AE.no difference AEis AE only thought would declare otherwise and try to differentiate.in fact the apparent line between dream and waking up out of dream very blurry.hmmmm... no boundry actually .Just thought story saying there is a division.

. Is there any link between the sensation and the sight, meaning that the sensation is ‘coming from’ the sight (labelled as hand) or only thoughts and mental constructs link them?

Can you see that both the ‘visual sight’ and the sensation appear simultaneously but ‘separately’, meaning that none of them is coming from the other or contained by the other? So they just appear equally, ‘beside’ each other without any hierarchy or link between them?

no link between the two.can appear separately and together with no hierarchy .same .
Nite nite will do investigation on other body parts tomorrow and report
Allen-:))