The Gate

Hello again,

What does it feel like to touch your hand and brush your fingers through your hair?
Report on Just the snesations!

Touching hand = warmth, undulations, slight hairness of hand touching. Hand being touched feels being touched with skin being rucked up.
Brushing fingers through the hair = warmth and differing textures in hand, slight irritation in my head of fingers touching which is not necessarily pleasant..

What makes these sensations skin or hair?

The difference is the mind's interpretation of the different sensations.

Is there a differnec beteeen touching the hand and touching a soft cushion ?

Yes, texture, temperature, solidity are different. But no sensation comes back from the cushion (touching, but not being touched)

Is there a differnece between touching hair or touching some strings?

Yes, different sensations. When I touch my hair there are two sensors (fingers and hair). When I touch strings there is only the sensations in fingers.

Now ask what makes these sensations yours?

The mind turns the sensations into thoughts about hand.... my hand, my fingers touching my hand. It interprets the sensations into concepts.

What is the difference between all these changing me's and thoughts?
If they are not thoughts what are they?
If they are then why not say there are many thoughts instead of many " me's"?

Each me is a whole series of thoughts. Me is a bundle of thoughts.
Yes many thoughts fits better than many me's.

Details and focus until the head hurts, so to speak, my friend.

My head hurts (pulsating and tight and pleeeeeep). I can see the thought (I have a head ache)! Where's the paracetamol?

Each me is a whole series of thoughts. Me is a bundle of thoughts.
Yes many thoughts fits better than many me's

Hold on to that thought.

Take a look at decision making again. See if that process anything other than thoughts which along with a me thought becomes a my decision?

decision are only thoughts arising because of condionality !

Scot

Okay Scott.

So let us summarise.

There is no Scott, no decision makers, no doers.

Is there anyone wanting enlightenment?

If that were to happen, who would be there to get it?

What is enlightenment and what will happen if it were achieved?

Q. Is there anyone wanting enlightenment ?

A. Ultimately there is no one wanting enlightenment there is just a thought process considering enlightenment .

Q. If that were to happen who would be there to get it .

A. Enlightenment is not a commodity or even a fully understandable concept !
No fixed being would be there to understand enlightenment. Enlightenment would just be there .

Q. What is enlightenment and what will happen if it were achieved.

A. Enlightenment is not a concept that can be understood unless it is achieved and if it were achieved there would be no fixed self achieving it, just enlightenment....nothing would happen.

All the best Scot

Thank you, Scot.

My sentiments exactly.

There are a set of questions we ask clients which is reviewed by some of the great thinkers at LU and is a prerequisite for inviting you to join some of our many fb groups where you can carry on discussion, discovery and guiding such as here if you like.

This is entirely optional.

If you wish i can present the questions for you.

Regards.

i dont at this stage want to commit myself to further inquirery . But i would like the option so provided that is ok then yes please present the questions .

All the best Scot

Yes, that's fine.

Here are the questions, take your time. You can answer them in bits if you like.


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience and understanding. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference (if anything) from before you realised 'no self'?


4) Was there something specific you looked into or something that was mentioned that made you fully realise? - Was there a specific moment where you 'tipped over' into realising 'no self'?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control as you understand it now. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Please give examples from experience if you can, and explain what you have realised.

6) Do you have anything further you would like to add?

Hello,

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No. It's clearly an illusion, a creation of mind.
It's still difficult to find the words to express this, but with this understanding there can't ever have been!
There was a time when I believed differently, but now its clear that that isn't the case.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience and understanding. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of separate self is exactly that. "I' as a fixed, separate, permanent entity cannot be true. There is no fixed self because every cell in the body is in a continual state of flux. This is about interconnectiveness, the delusion that there is a separation between 'me' and 'other', that there is a 'me' to affect the 'world' and a 'world' to affect 'me'.

This illusion is 'useful' for survival. The survival instinct depends upon a believe of the self as independent of everything else. It probably begins to be created at birth when an ego starts to develop, allowing a perception of continuity over time and space.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference (if anything) from before you realised 'no self'?

I think I have had an intuitive understanding of interconnectivity for a very long time. "I've known' that 'I'm not fixed' for many years. Discussing this on this forum has provided a language and a context to explore it in a more specific and complete fashion, and see the extent to which all my assumptions are based on this illusion. It has provided the opportunity to discuss these assumptions. My behaviour has shifted to be increasingly consistent with the understanding of this illusion, particularly in terms of my environmental impact.
There has been no sudden transformative experience, rather a subtle shifting in perspective.

4) Was there something specific you looked into or something that was mentioned that made you fully realise? - Was there a specific moment where you 'tipped over' into realising 'no self'?

There have been lots of mini points in the past when I have had lots of partial understandings. There is a freedom that comes from seeing 'myself' as part of a bigger picture.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control as you understand it now. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Please give examples from experience if you can, and explain what you have realised.

There is no fixed 'me' to make decisions or have intentions. They arise from conditions. When I'm thirsty I have the impression that I turn the kettle on, but the conditions leading to this are vast and varied and the conditions that make me do that are vast and varied too. Boiling water doesn't just appear, but due to the billions of conditions, occurrences that come together and without those conditions it could happen but without those conditions it couldn't happen on its own.

As there is no separation between me and other, choices, control and free will emerge out of evolving conditions. "I' frequently feel that 'I'm' in control. When I did the fire I got the paper, matches, wood, so all the conditions that were needed for it to happen and fire has arisen from that, but it wasn't a certainty that fire would happen. What the fire does I have very little control over. Fire doesn't exist separately, the conditions had to come together for fire to occur, it can't exist without the separate elements and the only control over the fire is the confines of the wood burner.

6) Do you have anything further you would like to add?

Thanks Scott.

Here are some questions from a guide.


You said 'There is no fixed self because every cell in the body is in a continual state of flux.'
Is there a reason why you mentioned the body at this point?
Why is 'cells in the body' particularly important?

You say 'As there is no separation between me and other'
What is the 'me' you are referring to here?

Describe what you understand to be 'mind' and 'thoughts'.
Where are they located? What are they witnessed by?

You said 'There is no fixed self because every cell in the body is in a continual state of flux.'
Is there a reason why you mentioned the body at this point?
Why is 'cells in the body' particularly important?

It was just a concrete illustration.... replace by 'everything'

You say 'As there is no separation between me and other'
What is the 'me' you are referring to here?

Its a stock saying. No fixed 'me' no fixed 'other' so no separation between these no fixed entities.

Describe what you understand to be 'mind' and 'thoughts'.
Where are they located? What are they witnessed by?

Mind and thought are constructs, also in continual flow. So not locatable. Witnessed within awareness.

Thanks Scott,

Here is another question.

How in DE do you conclude that a survival instinct is dependent on beliefs?

And another. We had coveed this earlier but my friend here is not sure.



What do you mean when you say "There is no fixed 'me' "? Why are you mixing the concept "fixed" with the concept "self"? Does this mean that you believe there is a unfixed form of self, that changes moment by moment?

Hello again,

What do you mean when you say "There is no fixed 'me' "? Why are you mixing the concept "fixed" with the concept "self"? Does this mean that you believe there is a unfixed form of self, that changes moment by moment?

"self' is a label given to a concept/thought of something permanent, unchanging. Experience is continually changing. So, there is no fixed self or unfixed self, just an experience of flux, and a tendency of the mind to fix it into the idea/concept of self.

How in DE do you conclude that a survival instinct is dependent on beliefs

?
This is an idea/concept used to answer your question about where does it come from (an idea?).
In DE there is nothing about instinct (beyond noticing behaving in particular 'instinctive' ways) or beliefs (beyond noticing thoughts wanting to attach to things).

Thanks Scott.

You will receive confirmation and invitation from admin.

Happy journey or does it end already?