I am seeking an experienced nondual guide !

[jayjay2]

Hi Kay,

I've been observing the gaps between the thoughts.

What I have observed it that gap is very peaceful.

All my best,
Jay

[forgetmenot]

Hey Jay.

What I have observed it that gap is very peaceful.

How is it known that it is a gap?

Love, Kay
xx

[jayjay2]

I know it is a gap because there are no thoughts. It also seems spacious and free.

Jay

[forgetmenot]

Hello Jay,

I know it is a gap because there are no thoughts. It also seems spacious and free.

Have another LOOK. When a 'gap' appears...how is it known that is it a gap...because a thought says so? And is it not another thought that appears and is saying "I know it is a gap because there are no thoughts. It also seems spacious and free"? How would you know it was 'spacious and free' if a thought didn't appear in the 'gap' saying so? How how would you know it's a gap...unless a thought appeared saying 'this is the gap'?

So where is the actual gap?

The exercise was a way to show you how thought appears and also a way to show you how to LOOK. But really LOOK to see if you can find a gap and see what is actually happening in this so-called gap!

Here is a thought exercise. Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear, without you doing anything at all.

- Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
- Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
- Where are they coming from and going to?
- Can you predict your next thought?
- Can you push away any thought?
- Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
- Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle?
- Can you choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?
- Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
- Is it possible to control any thoughts?
- Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing? Including the thought 'I'?
- It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

Look carefully when doing this exercise and do it several times if necessary. Please answer each question individually.

Love, Kay
xx

[jayjay2]

ave another LOOK. When a 'gap' appears...how is it known that is it a gap...because a thought says so? And is it not another thought that appears and is saying "I know it is a gap because there are no thoughts. It also seems spacious and free"? How would you know it was 'spacious and free' if a thought didn't appear in the 'gap' saying so? How how would you know it's a gap...unless a thought appeared saying 'this is the gap'?

I'LL PUT MY RESPONSES IN CAPS. YOU MAY BE RIGHT BUT I THOUGHT I WAS DESCRIBING THE FEELING AFTER THAT GAP OCCURRED.

So where is the actual gap?

I DON'T KNOW. I WOULD SAY IT IS NO WHERE. IN A VOID

The exercise was a way to show you how thought appears and also a way to show you how to LOOK. But really LOOK to see if you can find a gap and see what is actually happening in this so-called gap!

- Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

NO

- Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

NO

- Where are they coming from and going to?

IT SEEMS THEY CAME OUT OF LIKE SPACE AND WENT BACK INTO SPACE.

- Can you predict your next thought?

NO

- Can you push away any thought?

NO

- Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

NO

- Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle?

ITS VERY DIFFICULT

- Can you choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?

NO

- Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
YES IT SITUATIONS LIKE IF I HAVE TO SOLVE SAY A MATH PROBLEM. I CAN' CHOOSE TO THINK ABOUT THE MATH. BUT GENERALLY KNOW IT IS VERY DIFFICULT
- Is it possible to control any thoughts?
- Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing? Including the thought 'I'?
- It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

Look carefully when doing this exercise and do it several times if necessary. Please answer each question individually.

[jayjay2]

I hit the submit button to soon

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

YES IT SITUATIONS LIKE IF I HAVE TO SOLVE SAY A MATH PROBLEM. I CAN' CHOOSE TO THINK ABOUT THE MATH. BUT GENERALLY KNOW IT IS VERY DIFFICULT

- Is it possible to control any thoughts?

99 percent of the time. HOWEVER YOU COULD REPEAT A MANTRA AND FOCUS AND THING ABOUT THAT. BUT THOUGHTS CAN POP OUT OF NO WHERE AN INTERRUPT THAT.

- Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing? Including the thought 'I'?

NO. I WOULD EVEN KNOW HOW TO PREVENT THE THOUGHT I

- It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence?

YES

Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

YES

Blessings,
Jay

[forgetmenot]

Hi Jay,

So that I don’t have to restructure the whole post when I answer it…can we just keep it as you highlight the questions being answered (ie my questions that are in the blue text) with the quote function, and you just using normal size font, no capitals for your answers please.

Have another LOOK. When a 'gap' appears...how is it known that is it a gap...because a thought says so? And is it not another thought that appears and is saying "I know it is a gap because there are no thoughts. It also seems spacious and free"? How would you know it was 'spacious and free' if a thought didn't appear in the 'gap' saying so? How how would you know it's a gap...unless a thought appeared saying 'this is the gap'?

You may be right but i thought i was describing the feeling after that gap occurred.

I don’t want you to guess…I want you to LOOK. Go back and ‘find’ the ‘gap’ and tell me if a thought appears saying ‘this is the gap’.

This exploration is about me pointing and you LOOKING…not guessing or thinking what the answer is...but LOOKING, and from LOOKING giving me your answers.

So where is the actual gap?

I don't know. I would say it is no where. In a void

That is not the question. Go back and look at this so-called ‘gap’ and tell me if there is an actual gap or just a thought saying there is a gap.

- can you stop thinking a thought in the middle?

Its very difficult

Where exactly is the middle of a thought? Where does a thought end and another begin?

- can you choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?

No

If I could control 99% of thought, then I would certainly make sure that I controlled these one's!

- can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

Yes it situations like if i have to solve say a math problem. I can' choose to think about the math. But generally know it is very difficult

And what said that? Did another thought appear saying “Yes it situations like if i have to solve say a math problem. I can' choose to think about the math. But generally know it is very difficult”?

Look at your answers to the first two questions. So how are maths problems, which are thoughts, any different to any other thought? Because a thought said so?

Think of a 2-digit number. Why did you choose that number? Why not the previous number, or the next one? Do you know? If not, why don’t you know? If you are the thinker of thoughts then you must know how you create them. Repeat the experiment as necessary.

- Is it possible to control any thoughts?

99 percent of the time. However you could repeat a mantra and focus and thing about that. But thoughts can pop out of no where an interrupt that.

Describe to me, in detail, the process by which you create a thought, or make a choice. You have been doing it all your life apparently - so you must know exactly how you do it. So how do you do it? How do you create a thought? How do you think?

And once you have done that…then describe to me how you control those thoughts that you think? What is the process? This should be interesting as you said that you can’t predict your next thought…so if you can’t predict them…then how do you control them?

- Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing? Including the thought 'I'?

No. I would even know how to prevent the thought i

So, then how can you prevent any other thought from appearing?

- It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

This is one question. Please LOOK at it again and give me your answer.

Kay
xx

[jayjay2]

I

don’t want you to guess…I want you to LOOK. Go back and ‘find’ the ‘gap’ and tell me if a thought appears saying ‘this is the gap’.

There was a bit of a gap after a thought and then within the gap I thought this is the gap.
In other words there was a thought, then a gap, then a though there was a gap

There are different situations. Sometimes I am thinking a thought and then I'm thinking is this a gap. But other times there is a gap.

There are not that many true gapss.

That is not the question. Go back and look at this so-called ‘gap’ and tell me if there is an actual gap or just a thought saying there is a gap.

There is both situations. More often it a though t saying there is a gap. But, sometimes there is a true gap.

Where exactly is the middle of a thought? Where does a thought end and another begin?

I started a thought and then stopped it. I didn't continue to dwell on the thought. The thought seemed like there was more to it. That was just one circumstance. But most of the time you cannot have a middle of a thought.
The thought ends when it ends and begins when it begins. I can't really say more about it.


And what said that? Did another thought appear saying “Yes it situations like if i have to solve say a math problem. I can' choose to think about the math.

I'm not sure what said that. Awareness? However, if I have to buy 2 things at store. I can choose to think of adding the two things up which is a thought that was chosen in order to know how much to pay. I'm ackknowleging that 98 percent of thoughts just come out of nowhere. However, when I go into a store to buy something then I choose the thoughts of adding up number in order to know how much to take from my wallet.

Look at your answers to the first two questions. So how are maths problems, which are thoughts, any different to any other thought? Because a thought said so?

Math problems are thoughts. However, I thought we were speaking about thoughts that just kind of come out of nowhere as opposed to thoughts I choose to have.

Think of a 2-digit number. Why did you choose that number? Why not the previous number, or the next one? Do you know? If not, why don’t you know? If you are the thinker of thoughts then you must know how you create them. Repeat the experiment as necessary.

I do not know why I chose the number. It seemed random. Off the top of my head. I do not know.
There reason I do not know is because some thoughts come out of nowhere.

99 percent of thought I do not know how I create them. However, if I say I will pick a mantra that if common like OM. I can choose the think about that OM word. There will be alot of thoughts that might intrude but I could keep thinking about that word. However, that would require a great deal of focus. I agree that 99 percent of thoughts I do not know where they came from or how they were created.

Describe to me, in detail, the process by which you create a thought, or make a choice. You have been doing it all your life apparently - so you must know exactly how you do it. So how do you do it? How do you create a thought? How do you think?

When I make a choice for example I go into an ice cream store. I see the flavor vanilla and chocolate. I don't like chocolate much. I like vanilla. So, I choose vanilla because I enjoy it. I can decide to sing a song I like and think about one of my favorites then think and sing about it. But 99 percent of the time. Thinking just seems to happen.

And once you have done that…then describe to me how you control those thoughts that you think? What is the process? This should be interesting as you said that you can’t predict your next thought…so if you can’t predict them…then how do you control them?

99 percent of the time you cannot control the thoughts you think. But if you focus on say the number one or your breath you just focus on the breath or the number one and concentrate on it very hard. Your mind will continually wonder though.

So, then how can you prevent any other thought from appearing?
You can try but concentrating say on one thing. But another thought can slip in there quite easily.

- It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

Most times there is not an organized sequence of thought. But if you are following directions written on a piece of paper of how to assemble say a piece of furniture there is organized sequence of thoughts. Now there may be random thoughts in between the organized sequence of written instruction on how to assemble a piece of furniture.

This is one question. Please LOOK at it again and give me your answer.

I'm not sure what the one question is? Was it can you control you thoughts?
The answer would be 99 percent of the time you cannot.

Blessings !

Jay

[forgetmenot]

Hello Jay,

I want you, for the next few days...to sit at least twice a day, somewhere quiet, where you won't be disturbed, for about 20 minutes in each sitting and just watch thoughts.

Just notice thought....how they come and go, how they weave themselves into a story, how they appear as bits of music, sometimes images and watch how the stories change etc. I don't want you try and stop thoughts, change thoughts, push them away....just watch them as if you were a observer observing sub-titles on a blank screen.

Let me know how you go.

Love, Kay
xx

[jayjay2]

Hello Kay,

I've been sitting twice per day. Just watching thoughts.

There is alot of chatter but I just kind of let it go. I just watched the thoughts. By just watching the thougts, the stories and getting involved was greatly reduced.

I noticed that the mind goes all over the place. But, I just tried not to be judgemental or get involved with the thoughts.

Blessings,
Jay

[forgetmenot]

Hi Jay,

There is alot of chatter but I just kind of let it go. I just watched the thoughts. By just watching the thougts, the stories and getting involved was greatly reduced.

Yes, thoughts just appears and is the constant commentator on stuff and on no stuff lol! Did you notice that houghts are like the songs and ads that show up on the radio. You can't control what shows up and you can't stop the DJ from talking over the end of a song etc. It's the same with thought, you can't control them and you can't control what they say and you can't stop them.

Find a TV team sport on TV or a Youtube clip that lasts for at least 5 minutes, team sport such as soccer (the ideal sport to use for this), or basketball, or football.

1. Watch one minute with the sound turned OFF, watching ‘people’ messing about with a round thing on a field, up and down, up and down. Let it sink in, the whole experience.

2. Once the first minute is completed, now watch another whole minute with the commentary turned ON.

Notice the differences. Notice how the commentator (aka thought) offers lots of know-how, even advice, seems to feel as though they can influence somehow what is going on, as though one outcome is much preferred to the opposite outcome, the commentary may seem to heighten any supporter feelings which are there, and call for an identification with one team or other, and with the importance of the game itself.

3. Now turn the volume OFF AGAIN and just watch the action with NO audible commentary, the shapes moving around on the screen etc. Again notice all the differences in what is appearing as experience.

4. Now turn the volume ON again and ignore what you think you know thought is talking about, and just notice it as sound.

Let me know what you notice etc.

Love, Kay
xx

[forgetmenot]

Hello Jay....we lose momentum of this exploration when you leave too many days between my posts and your responses. Is there a particular reason why you cannot respond sooner?

Kay

[jayjay2]

Hello Kay,

Let me know what you notice etc.

I noticed that is was just sound. It was almost like it was in a foreign language.

I don't get to check my emails daily. But I will try and do that.

Thanks,

Jay

[forgetmenot]

You will have to explain that a little more...what was just sound?

Kay

[jayjay2]

You will have to explain that a little more...what was just sound?

What the commentator was saying was much, much less important the second time. I wasn't paying attention so much to his words. His words sounded like that had very little meaning to me. I was watching it and didn't care about it for some reason.
It seemed like he was making a big deal over some guys running up and down the court and it didn't have a lot of meaning to me. But he was trying to make it have a lot of meaning for me. But is wasn't working this time.
The first time when sounds was on. I was interested in what he said. This time it was almost like I couldn't understand, or didn't want to hear his commentary. I could see what was going on I didnt' need him to tell me.

Is that like an analogy. LIke my thoughts trying to tell me what is. I guess I don't need all the mental chatter. I should just see my life as it is.

Thanks,
Jay