My imagined thread

[Canfora]

Have a look at your experience.
Are you aware of sensations (senses) and thoughts going on?
Can you find anything else?
Can you find a thing that is a you?

[Florisness]

Nope, scanning all with attention but not a me to be found.
Although when I do the looking I almost always get some letting go yawns and burps, so I'll stay at it for some longer.

[Canfora]

The only reason that you have to think you are a you are thoughts, yes?
Because you can't find a you when you look for one...
So.... can a thought think?
Is the thought I a real I?
What believes that thoughts about a you are real? A thought?
Are you made of thoughts?

About the yawns... it can be highly boring to expect something different than what is going on to happen... what are you waiting for? What needs to happen so that you can throw in the towel, drop expectations and LOOK?

[Florisness]

The only reason that you have to think you are a you are thoughts, yes?
Because you can't find a you when you look for one...
So.... can a thought think?
Is the thought I a real I?
What believes that thoughts about a you are real? A thought?
Are you made of thoughts?

Yes that's right.
I have no idea what believes the thought I, it is only "verified" by other thoughts and some bodily sensation come up when the word I is said. yes imaginary me only seems to "exist" in thoughts.

About the yawns... it can be highly boring to expect something different than what is going on to happen... what are you waiting for? What needs to happen so that you can throw in the towel, drop expectations and LOOK?

Well I think the yawning is the cause of a letting-go-of-importances technique that became unconscious. I don't know where I'm waiting for, although I do notice a desire (or maybe more like a hope) for something happening. When I do the looking I do it as honest as I can, is there more than that needed?

It took a lot of hours to write back today. An urge to spend time with this (questioning and looking) together with some kind of 'I can't do this'/hopelessnesss-feeling (expressing as a bit tiredness) makes me swing and back and forth with a lot with a lot of avoiding going on, which results in a lot of wasted time. Already dropped most expectations, don't really notice thoughts about related (looking related) expectations. I'll try doing some more releasing and investigating on this all.

[Florisness]

Never mind that bafflegap above, i'll write back later today or tomorrow

[Canfora]

You've been noticing how language can be bafflegab? Is that the reason why you aren't writing much?

Would you say that you can see there is no you inside or outside the body?
Would you say that you can see when you're identifying with an I, or awareness, or emptiness or something else?

[Florisness]

You've been noticing how language can be bafflegab? Is that the reason why you aren't writing much?

YES! How on earth could you tell? It's complete bafflegap. People don't use language, they live as language. Everybody talks, talks and talks about things that are complete bullshit and often don't even exist. And me too, when I try to express some wonder, feeling or have a talk with someone, what comes out is complete crap.

Would you say that you can see there is no you inside or outside the body?

Yes, I notice it's comforting just noticing this, but it's easier for me to notice with eyes closed.

Would you say that you can see when you're identifying with an I, or awareness, or emptiness or something else?

Well yes, but I just notice the difference in how much I'm identified with an I, after contact with a human identification increases.

[Canfora]

YES! How on earth could you tell? It's complete bafflegap. People don't use language, they live as language. Everybody talks, talks and talks about things that are complete bullshit and often don't even exist. And me too, when I try to express some wonder, feeling or have a talk with someone, what comes out is complete crap.

I also went through the same and still think many times that almost everything I say or write is bafflegap (this is a funny word, that I didn't know!).

But we need to communicate and if you don't share what's going on with you, how can I guide you?? Please write without censuring what pops up. Thinking is always changing anyway, what seems a fact today is discarded tomorrow. And that's okay :)

Yes, I notice it's comforting just noticing this, but it's easier for me to notice with eyes closed.

Why are you saying it is easier with eyes closed? When you look with eyes open, do you see an I?

Well yes, but I just notice the difference in how much I'm identified with an I, after contact with a human identification increases.

It seems to me that you are under the assumption that identification with an I shouldn't be happening? Why not?

What is identification exactly? Isn't identification a label you place in a experience?

There is a experience going on, yes? In that experience self-thoughts can take a front stage role, sure. Sometimes they are very compelling and you start thinking that they shouldn't be happening, that they have a meaning, that they are happening to YOU, that you are identifying with them. You start believing that you are entering and leaving identification with an I (are you??) and that it is possible to stop identification or something similar. Yada, yada, yada, thought loop feeding itself. Check in your own experience if this is what is going on.

Is any of this happening to a you? Can it be controlled by a you? Does it have a personal meaning?

[Florisness]

Yes 'bafflegab' is a word I picked up from Mckenna.

But we need to communicate and if you don't share what's going on with you, how can I guide you?? Please write without censuring what pops up. Thinking is always changing anyway, what seems a fact today is discarded tomorrow. And that's okay :)

Yes I see that.. It's just when I write the next hour I wish to change or delete the message. Ahh well I'm just going to do this writing thing again, thanks.
You say 'Please write without censuring what pops up', but that's is mostly pure conditioning right? Shouldn't I check what nonsense I wrote after I typed it?

For example I just wanted to type this; 'I feel like such a fraud when I communicate', than I look at the message and see 'I feel like a fraud' and think that writing about it just makes things worse because it implies that there is a me who feels like that. Right now the thought/feeling poped up that I don't like to communicate so much to avoid the feeling of being a fraud, which is just a reinforcement of the being-a-fraud feeling.
Than seeing this makes me want to delete everything here and live in a cave. Than now seeing that it is exactly this kind of bafflegab what gives the illusion of an I. And yes, this is just a neurotic loop, it's exactly this neurotic behavior that I usually end up not writing you.

Why are you saying it is easier with eyes closed? When you look with eyes open, do you see an I?

I was going to reply this message, but reread some part above, deleted a part and now I'm crying

What is identification exactly? Isn't identification a label you place in a experience?

it seems that identification makes attention look out from that belief

[Canfora]

The idea of you crying makes me sad. Are you thinking that you should be different than you are, that there is something wrong with you? That things shouldn't be as they are? These are all beliefs and they're very painful. I can tell you that everything's okay as it is and that there is nothing wrong with you and with what is going on, but my words will not help you, if you don't have a look at what is going on, and see for yourself if what I'm saying is true, even when it doesn't feel like it.

Do you cry when you see movies? I saw "The Fault in Our Stars" movie and it made me cry. I knew it was just a story, I knew crying was silly but hey! it made me cry. No idea of why I'm talking about my own experience other than to say that crying happens, identification with stories happens.

Right now the thought/feeling poped up that I don't like to communicate so much to avoid the feeling of being a fraud, which is just a reinforcement of the being-a-fraud feeling.

I don't want to pressure you. But can you have a look and see if this is a story or not? These are thoughts about you, but what makes you believe that there is a you where you could glue a "I'm a fraud" post it? What is owning this fraud story, giving it reality, other than a thought about a you that is a fraud?

[Canfora]

What made you cry?

[Florisness]

Couldn't finish the crying because there was someone at the door who needed something. So splashed some water in my face and acted like I had some allergy. The man at the door didn't look very convinced though haha. Yes I know, the faking was based on the I-lie.

I don't want to pressure you. But can you have a look and see if this is a story or not? These are thoughts about you, but what makes you believe that there is a you where you could glue a "I'm a fraud" post it? What is owning this fraud story, giving it reality, other than a thought about a you that is a fraud?

Yes of course just a story, there is nothing here that the story can belong to. I think the crying was caused by it all being one big mess.

Definitely lost momentum by not writing here everyday and sticking to this direct pointing. Some doubt or identification seemed to have sneaked in in that period. Today made it clearer again, but there is some frustration about this I-belief still existing, it's like 'can this shitty belief go already?'. This seems to be a returning frustration. Hmm notice some resistance against accepting the belief in an I, i'll try to release that

[Florisness]

Oh I see, there is still some identification with attention. Or it is more a thought of an observer

[Canfora]

Couldn't finish the crying because there was someone at the door who needed something.

Bummer :)
This process is being very intense for you it seems. Intensity is okay! Welcome intensity! It's a sign that you're poking on the right direction.

I think the crying was caused by it all being one big mess.

You're talking about what is going on in your mind or about *all*?
How is life going?
Did anything changed since you've started looking for a self?

Oh I see, there is still some identification with attention. Or it is more a thought of an observer

So if there is an observer, where is the observer located? Somewhere behind the eyes, among all the stuff that is inside the head?

[Florisness]

This process is being very intense for you it seems. Intensity is okay! Welcome intensity! It's a sign that you're poking on the right direction.

No actually it's usually a low intensity.

You're talking about what is going on in your mind or about *all*?
How is life going?
Did anything changed since you've started looking for a self?

No all is good now, I think there was just some build up frustration that got released.
What changed? uhh all became more peaceful (or less conflicting) , less neurotic and less something. And more awareness

So if there is an observer, where is the observer located? Somewhere behind the eyes, among all the stuff that is inside the head?

Well I know there is not a me who does anything. Because that would imply there there was an I in the brain sending signals, and I can see how the body moves on it own.
Spending some time with the focusing, which also seems to go automatic (I knew that before, but these things need to be taken experientially right?). It seems to behave in a certain pattern, very survivalish.

How does this seeing work? Is it just that everything needs to be known or seen as not I or is there some sudden seeing luck involved?