Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387

[Adam51387]

It is always there, without it there would not be experience.

I am not agitated at the moment, i will try to more next time, thoughts dont want to sit with agitation, they want to fix it, even if its not experienced in any other sense other than thought, there are beliefs that overanalysis makes agitation worse. There are beliefs that believe the goal is to move on from agitation (no longer feel it) as quick as possible.

doing can happen whether you plan to or not. Its not actually a you that plans, it is thoughts, and new thoughts can cancle plans abd so can external circumstance.

I still have a little trouble with thouggts thinking, because a thought based off the memory of a thought is a new thought, i experience thoughts as a constant whether i am focused on them or not, thinking is happening, and so Thoughts are kinda like picking lilly pads out of a pond, there all connected, but they dont create each other. Never mind, yes they do create each other, but i dont think thoughts thinking is an accurate description of the process, i still have to look at this more...

Agitation of the foot and emotional agitation are two different experiences described by the same word, but they are totally different experiences, the mind (thoughts) lables emotional pain and causes it. But the mind (thoughts) do not cause physical pain, only lable it.

[Sarah7]

Hey Adam

It is always there,

OK – so have a look next time agitation or some other strong emotion comes up – is it exhibiting that emotion too – or is there spacious stillness there?

thoughts dont want to sit with agitation, they want to fix it, even if its not experienced in any other sense other than thought, there are beliefs that overanalysis makes agitation worse. There are beliefs that believe the goal is to move on from agitation (no longer feel it) as quick as possible.

Oh yes! Well spotted. There is love there – thoughts wanting to make things better – but analysis is not needed – just notice.

Its not actually a you that plans, it is thoughts,

No. Look again. Planning happens yes. Thoughts happen yes – but is there control there – if one thing controls another thing it implies a power. What makes the connection between thought and planning? Is it thought? But just because a thought says something – does it make it true? Do thoughts have the power to do anything?

I still have a little trouble with thouggts thinking, because a thought based off the memory of a thought is a new thought, i experience thoughts as a constant whether i am focused on them or not, thinking is happening, and so Thoughts are kinda like picking lilly pads out of a pond, there all connected, but they dont create each other. Never mind, yes they do create each other, but i dont think thoughts thinking is an accurate description of the process, i still have to look at this more...

Again what makes the connection between one thought and another? Are they all new thoughts? Have a look.

Agitation of the foot and emotional agitation are two different experiences described by the same word, but they are totally different experiences, the mind (thoughts) lables emotional pain and causes it. But the mind (thoughts) do not cause physical pain, only lable it.

Is it truer to say thoughts try and explain all? But what do they actually know?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Adam51387]

Thoughts dont do anything, wow. But a plan is a thought. But it does actually make the doing happen, but Sarah the thought explains to the doing what should happen doesnt it? Even if the thought itself doesnt jump out and make body do, it does guide action right?..wow, thoughts cant do anything, sounds like sucha no brainer, but reading this made me see this in a different way..

Thoughts do not make things true. Its easy to slip into delusion and believe thoughts for me though. I believe there are thoughts that reoccur, can new thoughts form? Sure. How are they connected?......by content, only content connects thoughts.

[Adam51387]

Thoughts dont actually make the doing happen****************

[Adam51387]

Thoughts do try to explain all, but they dont seem to know anything to a certainty, they are all speculations in a moment in time.

[Sarah7]

Hi Adam

Thoughts dont do anything, wow. But a plan is a thought. But it does actually make the doing happen, but Sarah the thought explains to the doing what should happen doesnt it? Even if the thought itself doesnt jump out and make body do, it does guide action right?..wow, thoughts cant do anything, sounds like sucha no brainer, but reading this made me see this in a different way..

Think of a lift Adam – with a voice telling you what floor you are on. Does the voice move the lift or just accompany it? Now look at doing and movement. Watch!

Thoughts do not make things true. Its easy to slip into delusion and believe thoughts for me though. I believe there are thoughts that reoccur, can new thoughts form? Sure. How are they connected?......by content, only content connects thoughts.

OK – thinking again! LOL. All that’s needed is looking and noticing! :) What is actually experienced?

Thoughts dont actually make the doing happen

Are you sure now?

Thoughts do try to explain all, but they dont seem to know anything to a certainty, they are all speculations in a moment in time.

Are you clear here too? Let both settle in – verify if you have to.
How do you feel?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Adam51387]

Where i was getting jammed up was thinking that thoughts happend first then action. There can be thought first. But if i scratch an itch, the doing can occur before the thought to scratch arises.

You mentioned how planning does happen. What is it then that plans if it is not thought.

[Adam51387]

I have no idea where planning comes from, or action, or thought, it arises out of no where

[Sarah7]

Hey!

Where i was getting jammed up was thinking that thoughts happend first then action. There can be thought first. But if i scratch an itch, the doing can occur before the thought to scratch arises.

Are you clear about that now then Adam?

You mentioned how planning does happen. What is it then that plans if it is not thought. I have no idea where planning comes from, or action, or thought, it arises out of no where

Are you OK with not knowing?
So what wants an answer to this that can be nicely explained and understood? Would that be a thought? LOL.

Lets have a checking session! As always, in direct experience:

Have you been able to find, a ‘self’ that is the ‘experiencer’?
Or a self that is the doer, or can control what happens?
Or a self that ‘makes’ decisions?
Or a self who ‘does the thinking’?
Is the "body" just another thought label for sensations?
Are the five body senses made to arise or experienced by this ‘self’?
Is there a self ‘in here’ which is separate from the world and others ‘out there’?
Is there doubt or unclarity that in all these cases the ‘self’ is nothing other than a mental fabrication?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Adam51387]

The only major unclarity, is that there is oneness with the external out of the body, i feel as though everything arises from within, i do not feel connected to others.

I am ok with not knowing where the experiences arise from, because i could never know, i only think they arise from within, through this organism, that is where the experience is felt.

[Sarah7]

Hey Adam

The only major unclarity, is that there is oneness with the external out of the body, i feel as though everything arises from within, i do not feel connected to others.

You remember the seeing exercise? Use it. Have a really good look at e.g. your hand, people spotting somewhere busy etc.
Then move onto speaking with someone. Really experience the thoughts of separateness. You looked at all the sense separateness exercises – use them all!
Have a really good look. What do you notice?
Pick apart that feeling of non-connectedness? Is it permanent? What is it made up of?
What is ‘external’? Can you really know what is ‘out there’? What do you really know at all?
Take as much time as you need here.
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Adam51387]

Well, i was going to say the external is what the senses cant get input from, but then the eyes can see outside things, you can touch outside things but none of that is a self, so it is all nothingness, being that there is no controlling agent that i am aware of for any of this
Where is the physical divide? I can feel the air around the body, but i cant feel what the air, or the table, or the other person feels, the feeling is right here, through one experience.

[Adam51387]

Boy im sure gonna miss chatting with you Sarah!

[Sarah7]

Hey Adam

Where is the physical divide? I can feel the air around the body, but i cant feel what the air, or the table, or the other person feels, the feeling is right here, through one experience.

You can feel the air? Look again – what is actually experienced? Is it air or is it a thought about? How are you separate from the experience? From any experience?

Boy im sure gonna miss chatting with you Sarah!

Havent gone yet! LOL
Hugs S xxx

[Adam51387]

Without lableing idk what is experienced, theres just experience. What is seen, felt, and tasted are all independent of each other correct?

Sometimes unsure thoughts dont know if im on the right track.