Is there anybody to help me to cross the Gate?

[Freddi]

Hi Manana

Wasn't it the direct experience of illusion?

Can you have a direct experience of Santa, or a unicorn? Of anything that is not there?

I look forward to reading what it feels like to be 'you', in your most immediate experience.

Fred

[Mani]

Hi Fred,

I took illusion for the true reality for almost all my life so don't be surprise that some experiences still seem to be direct experiences so far. Especially when you ask me tricky questions about "what is it that feels separated"… :)

My five senses, as always lately, don't point anything which can be called "me". The body is sitting at the desk, the screen is being seen, sounds of tapping sentences in the laptop is being heard.
But stubborn thoughts about separation are influencing "me" anyway.

Tired again, tired with being in the trap or pissing in the wind.

Good night
Manana

[Freddi]

Hi Manana

Direct experience will never point to a ‘self’ because there isn’t one. You have already seen this, and have called Manana ‘fictional’. Thoughts will still come and claim experience, try to make sense of it, own it. That is the nature of thought, and it won’t stop.
Ultimately I am not here to prove to you that there is no self, you have to prove to me that there is one. I am only pointing to the gate, 'you' have to go through it. You say there is no self, yet your thoughts tell you ‘not yet’. You are clinging on to some expectation about a different experience, a fiction. Thoughts tell a story about a ‘Manana being stuck’, but I can’t see that. There is only seeing. 100% of the time.

You see, it is soooo simple that the mind can’t see it, make sense of it, and it overlooks it. Just for a moment, get out of your mind stream, and come to your senses. See, touch, feel, smell, listen. What is actually happening, right here and now? Isn’t it a permanent miracle? Just the smelling, the hearing, the seeing, the touching? Stay with it, it is a constant celebration.

Would now be a good time to admit and accept that WHAT IS is ALL THERE IS?

Warm wishes

Fred

[Mani]

Dear Fred,

after your last post I felt something different. At last, it was a tangible sense of giving up for the first time. As if somebody told me: that's enough! And all the resistance melted. With whom am I arguing all the time? What is this struggling for? Suddenly I realized that I was just following my thoughts constantly (which I knew before, of course, but only now it became so clear). What a relief! There is a certainty now that there won't be any resistance any more. Thoughts are always there but they ceased to do harm, I would say.
Just the attention should be more often on the present moment...

Thank you, Fred, for this post
Manana

[Freddi]

Thanks for your moving post, Dear Manana, I'll be in touch tomorrow.
No more trying, no more resisting, no more effort, just being.

Sending love
Fred

[Freddi]

Good morning Manana

Resisting WHAT IS seems to be part of our human condition. All the ‘shoulds’, ‘shouldn’ts’, ‘ought to’, ‘if only’. Do you see a tree complaining about the weather? Or a bird wishing he could upgrade to a better nest? Of course ultimately I can’t be sure, but I would put my money on the fact that they don’t.

Do you SEE clearly, now, how thinking creates an alternative, unreal world, one with a separate self arguing with WHAT IS? Seeing this is liberation, but is also just the beginning, because habitual selfing thoughts do and will happen, especially in the midst of stressful situations, where thoughts claim that an ’I’ is needed to manage the ‘chaos’.
There can be a lot of conditioning to see through. That is why we have post-gate support groups at LU.

One person I saw through the gate a little earlier wrote this to me: "Peace comes not from ending the war, not from all being in full agreement, peace comes from the allowing of the full expression, or rather realizing that the full expression is already allowed".

What about the striving and the seeking, Manana? Where is that now? Is Manana still looking for that special experience?
What is the reality behind these ‘ideas’ of Manana, ‘I’?

Warm wishes

Fred

[Mani]

Hi Fred,

this big relief is still here!
I know what is the main obstacle now: all those "awakened people" testimonies which I read before and which are applied to what is going on here. That's why I'm waiting for seeing another picture of the world: incredibly beautiful, fresh and glowing as everybody describes it. I wasn't struck by such a change in seeing, by feeling emptiness inside. Yet this emptiness is being felt because there is no any reality behind Manana and I. Manana is just the name, that's all. I was only struck by this feeling of giving up the day before, really liberating feeling!

So now, after the war is finished the full expression should be allowed as one of the "gatecrashers" wrote... What else could I do, Fred?

Warm wishes
Manana

[Freddi]

Hi Manana

I love reading that you feel so relieved, and liberated, and that you see the emptiness behind the idea of Manana. I definitely feel a shift happening.

As to the ‘awakened people’s testimonies’, what is that, but another story? Who or what could be awake or not? You call this an ‘obstacle’ but there is no obstacle.
You can keep these stories going, and go for another turn of the hamster wheel, or you can admit that they are not real, and leave them alone.

Rome wasn’t built in a day, Manana. The notion of Manana/self/separation took some time to build too, how could it evaporate all at once? When you see that there is no reality behind this notion of ‘self’, it is a beginning, then big parts of the theatre set keep falling away bit by bit. Like the unpeeling of an onion, only you know that an onion is only made of peel, no 'core'. For some the first step is dramatic, for others it is sooo subtle. The story of Fred falls in the second category. Once the ‘gate’ is crashed, though, more and more keeps falling, more and more is seen through.

You ask what you could do? Well you could accept that these expectations are just stories, and that the full expression of Life has already been allowed. There is no 'you' that could allow it or not.
A simple question for you: have you seen through the illusion of the separate self?

We have six summing up questions, which I could ask you if you are ready, … and continue on to our support groups where you can exchange with other ‘people’ who have seen through the illusion, and are dealing with the ‘residue’.

How do you feel about this?

Warm wishes,

Fred

[Mani]

Hi Fred,

I had to go for a walk after your post. It was so strange for me to admit that yes, I had seen through the illusion. So I guess I am ready for your summing up questions.

Thank you, Fred
Manana

P.S. And you are right about the testimonies, all the more reason they are all different. "My" story is just another different story too.

[Freddi]

Hello Manana

I am so happy that you are seeing this and that you see that all those enlightenment testimonies are just other stories. That is a big step and I feel that a letting go of expectations has definitely taken place.

So here are our summing up questions. Take all the time you need with these and be as detailed as you like. Remember to stay with your present experience only, no concept, no teaching, no jargon. Just your words, as they come.
When you have done them, I may (or may not) have some questions to clarify a thing or two. And then when we’re both happy I’ll invite the other guides to have a look at them, to make sure that we’ve covered everything, that no stone is left unturned.
Also do remember to give examples for question 5, how ‘apparent’ decision-making events are taking place in your every day life.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
 
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now. 
 
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
 
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? 
 
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
 
6) Anything to add?

Sending love

Fred

[Mani]

Hi Fred,

I think I am ready enough to challenge this serious task :) and answer summing up questions, no need to linger any more.

1. No, there is no a separate entity, "self", "me", "I" at all and there was not anything like that before. There was only the strong belief in separate individual's existence, belief deepened and strengthened during the life by all our cultural environment.

2. It's very difficult to say when the illusion of separate self starts… As far as I can remember it was always there: what a lovely little girl, why is she so shy or why is she so nervous? And so on. Identification with "lovely", "shy" and whatever else they said about "Manana" was quite easy to absorb. It caused further identifications – with emotions, thoughts, states, so that "Manana" started to seem quite real. And simultaneously sense of separation was growing, "Manana" vs. rest of the world which is mostly unjust and doesn't understand "her". There were just moments of very profound yet rare experiences when "Manana" had a deep wordless communication with animals or happened to disappear and to be pure emptiness while playing piano, for instance. These moments, though still very vivid, were took as something exceptional, then after years were claimed to be experience of the "flow". Now I realize that there was just a natural seeing through the illusion.

3. As I told you before there was no any big revolution. I would rather describe this as a different feeling than seeing because I can't say I was struck with quite another image of the world. I just felt unbelievable relief, as I was untied suddenly or maybe some magic spell fell apart at last… All the tension connected with 'trying to cross the gate' immediately disappeared and the sense of being 'not good enough' evaporated as well. This glorious feeling of deep relief is still present for past few days. What was noticed as well? Worrying about things ceased; I catch myself quite often on staring at something without any thoughts arising in the head; whatever I do, I do it effortlessly.

4. The last push, I think, it was your gentle persuasion in the post from 8th of May. I knew that there was no point to continue arguing about 'the direct experience of illusion' but still there remained some warlike approach inside. And suddenly while reading your post I just began to cry…It was like some kind of a swoon, admiration, overwhelming acceptance transmitted by your words.
I think I should add here something. A couple of days before I wanted to check one thread from the forum (it was the oldest one, I was curious what were they still discussing after 5 months of analyzing the same topic). I read only few posts and what I noticed instantly was that the guided one was fighting all the time in quite unpleasant, ironic, and sometimes even rude way. In spite of a different form of arguing, the analogy in 'my' and 'his' way of thinking and, first of all, way of resisting was undeniable! I can see now that it was helpful – as if I saw this conversation arising in my head from outside perspective. Some work had unconsciously been done presumably before I read your post finally.

5. It's quite easy actually. I close my laptop, stand up and go to the kitchen to eat something because of arising hunger in the body, not because "I decided" to stop working and to go downstairs guided by my "free will". And as for more complicated situations the movement of machinery is the same just that we have to take more factors on board. For example, decision is being made just now to write a book about awakened people in Poland. First of all, I am a journalist, this is my profession. Then, I've been reading books on this topic for the last few years and what is most important, there is no such a book in Poland so far. There is no even such a discussion! There is a real need in such an information, just let the people know what is going on. The mind comes to specific conclusions. This body-mind structure called Manana has such a possibility to fill the gap. "Decision" is made.
What am I responsible for? It's more complex question. Being aware that there is no me, "I" can't be responsible for anything. But this body-mind creature is acting somehow and this is not irrelevant how do it's actings look like. I'm not quite sure yet how is it going to unfold, I can only feel now that the burden of responsibility is much much lighter!

6. There is no full clarity yet but I'm loosing the rest of expectations that there should be some radical change. That's just it. And there is no end in it.

Thank you again and again, Fred
Manana

[Freddi]

Hi Manana,

Thank you for your detailed answers. I will now invite other guides to have a look at our conversation, to make sure that nothing needs clarifying.

I'll be in touch shortly.

Sending love

Fred

[Freddi]

Hello again Manana,

Very good response from the guides so far!
Just one niggle expressed by one guide. I'll copy it here:

You write "this body-mind creature is acting somehow and this is not irrelevant how do it's actings look like."
What do you mean? How does how actions "look" have relevance? Look to what? How does observation of actions alter what is in any way, outside of a story?

Warm wishes

Fred

[Mani]

Yes, I can understand what this doubt is about. "How does it look like" it was only an expression but not well-chosen one, I admit. How actions "look" have no relevance, certainly. What I meant was that if some habitual thinking and behaviors remain, some people even after seeing through the illusion may still be prone to wreak their anger, for example, in their relationships with children or animals, others like to show off how spiritually perfect they are, and so on. And there is still kind of responsibility which "Manana" or anybody else has for her/his actings.

I hope it's more clear now.
Warm regards for all the guides

Manana

[Freddi]

Hi Manana,

When you say "there is still kind of responsibility which "Manana" or anybody else has for her/his actings". How can we be "responsible" for something over which we have no control?
Do you mean in the story? Of course if "Fred" steals "Manana's hat, there will be some responsibility in the story, accountability to the laws of the land, but behind all these appearances, is there really any personal responsibility? Is there a 'Manana' to be responsible and someone else for 'Manana' to be responsible to?

Please let me know what comes up when you consider this carefully.

Warm wishes,

Fred