Hello, I'm new

[Prism]

I am playing around with Adyashanti´s "True meditation" again after abandoning it for years for more, shall we say, strict and purposeful meditation techniques. When I tried perfecting it in the past i must have underestimated how deeply one needs to let go of control for "True Meditation" to occur. Either that or I wasnt ready to trust in simplicity back then..

It is about non-doing, free of agenda. Not trying to make things happen, not trying to not make things happen.
In every instant, be completely free of doing. Release anything that appears the moment it arises.

In this state I find deep and repleneshing calm like never before:
Simple and carefree joy as a background to all the phenomena that pops in and out of awareness, and nothing is asked of me.
Watching things come and go in this knowing space where nothing sticks, nothing is kept, always new and fresh in every instant.

It helps me to wind down, rest the frantic seeking for some time and release control.
I also run into deeply hidden resistance patterns. They are just there, too vague to make sense of..
But Im not trying sense of them or make the go away. Just letting awareness show me what is ready to be shown - notice and move on.

[Anastacia42]

First, all of the descriptions have some truth to them.

You should definitely know there has been a shift in perception. It may be subtle, gradual, or it may hit you like a ton of bricks.

Working on the first 3 fetters is fine.

Adyashanti is great.

Have we done this one?

Explore ‘Sense of Self’

Let’s say that you have lost your keys and you swear that you left them in your coat. You go to look and check all the pockets - the keys are not there. You swear they must be as that was the last place you remember them. You have a vivid memory of putting them there after you left the house. But when you check they are not there. At this point you can keep believing that the keys are in your pocket, or you can admit you were mistaken.

This is just like that. You may see clearly that the self is an illusion but still feel a sense of self - just like the keys. But feeling something to be true and seeing that it is or is not is different. This is why we may find ourselves coming back to your expectations at the start and at the end.

Now, I’d like to ask you to explore this SENSE of self very-very thoroughly. Not by thinking about it, but by FEELING it. Keep the focus of attention on the sense of self and inquire:

Does the sense of self have a location?

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

What is found?

You don't have to do them again, but LOOK. What do they point to? [/color]

Loving,

[Prism]

I didn’t do these before..

I want to work closely with these questions and similar ones.
They are really spot on and I understand that the answers to the questions doesn’t mean anything at all - it’s what I find when looking.

And I did see! I saw that sense of self is a mirage and I saw that it’s just a sense (like a scent, perfume) that belongs to the body that is assumed to have or own these different things like memories, feelings, emotions etc but in reality they are just appearing together with this sense of self. They are not linked in the way I think. The sense of self is like ”hockey”. What is hockey? Can you find hockey? No you can find players and ice and pucks and fans. Where is hockey?

I saw that when I refer to ”me” - that is a collection of things that is either a sensation in the body or a memory that I collected through the years. I saw my dad, an internal image, a collection of feelings, images and realized that is not my dad - it is a mental image of the person I call dad.


The realization did not however hit all the way home - there is more to see here. It was like wanting to sneeze really badly but it passed. What I saw I need to see more clearly and definite. That’s why I want to work with this more before answering.

Do you have similar questions to throw in here while the iron is hot?

[Anastacia42]

Honestly, your description sounds like that is it and you've got it.

What is missing?

Often people mistake the lie feeling of contraction for a "self." It's not.

Loving,

[Prism]

Conviction. Not 99% but a 100% realization that there is no such thing as self. Now, all the bits and pieces (proof if you will) of a self are still very present. Maybe some time is needed for things to land?

Another thing missing is inner piece and contentment which I assumed realization & liberation would bring. I feel sort of half baked, one foot in each world. Again, maybe time is needed?

It’s like the ”me” is groggy and stumbling around from all the hits taken and now all that’s left is the final blow leading to a knock out.

[Prism]

Often people mistake the lie feeling of contraction for a "self." It's not.

The lie feeling. Can you expand a bit on that please?
It’s a contraction felt from living the lie of a separate self?
Then, will it fade as we give the lie less and less importance and start living from/as truth instead?

[Anastacia42]

Already did.

Re-read June 16th at 10:39 am

viewtopic.php?t=9951&start=15#p409877

Possibly the most important pointer there is.

Loving,

[Prism]

Something is cooking, something is stirring..
Had deep deep meditation sessions where insights come quite frequently.
Most important one - The illusion of "me" with a past, relationship to objects, and an upcoming future is "written" NOW - just like in a dream at night the dream character has a past, relationship to dream objects, and an upcoming future.
So there has been a deepening realization into the "fictionness" of the me, and also a deepening understanding of how the NOW is all there ever is, was and will be. I am releaved that I have finally found a way to get out of my head, out of the ever spinning mind created riddles.

But getting out of these meditation sessions are quite disorientating.. I sense thoughts flying around like the static on a tv screen, almost like a swarm of a thousand flies over my head. But they are not registred in the mind enough to be "unpacked" so I cant know what they are about. Like multiple radios playing, talking over each other. Single thoughts are picked up now and then, coming into the forefront of awareness. A fear that surprises me that is now present is the fear of going insane.
Feels like Im messing with my head a bit too forcefully.. an ego protection mechanism or a valid concern? Maybe I need to set all of this aside for a few days and let things fall into place?

And unfortunately, a great deal of anxiety has followed these deep meditations and the resulting fear.
I think it is because I am letting go of control in such a deep way that whatever was kept underneath is now surfacing.
Like riding a bike without training wheels on, more difficult to keep in balance without the usual support.

I need to be with all of this a bit and orient before I can see where I am at.

[Anastacia42]

Good morning,

The illusion of "me" with a past, relationship to objects, and an upcoming future is "written" NOW

All good. Remember, we don't care that much about more understanding. That is just thinking.

LOOK. Your view of the world will shift. That's what we are watching for.

Read "Gateless Gatecrashers" that you can download here under Books for examples.

We're not going to analyze more thinking. If you want a break, take one. You're doing fine.

Loving,

[Prism]

Thanks Stacy,

OK I am looking. Let's use the questions from the inquiry:

Does the sense of self have a location?

I spent more than 2hrs looking at this question, unable to answer it 100% truthfully.
The best I can do is to say that while it is in a non-specific location - it is definately with the body and if I had to point to a specific region - I´d say it is like a cloud in the chest area spanning to the head, slightly above the eyes in the middle of the forehead.

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

No not in the convetional sense. If there is a shape to "mind stuff", then thats what it is but it cant be measured.

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

Another tough one... Its tough because I am trying to answer this without using logic.
Logically, Im leaning towards a NO since there is no evidence of that the sense of self is the producer of communication.

Excluding logic; the sense of self FEELS LIKE or is believed to be the thinker, the feeler, the doer and also the communicator of these things.

If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

Evaluating incoming data from the senses (S) -> interpreting/evaluating (I) -> producing thoughts/feelings about the interpretation (T) -> responding to input from senses + input from thoughts/feelings (R)
(input) S + T = (output) R

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

If the self is a real thing then yes, it has all of "my" characteristics and attributes
If not, it is just a sense, just an object in awareness that in reality has no inherent governance or relationship to the other objects in awareness. All of that is then assumed

I am seeing that there is a sense of self here.

This sense of self is believed to have capabilities outside of being just "the sense of self", like for example:
- Ability to observe (being the observer)
- Ability to produce thoughts (being the thinker)
- Ability to feel (the sense of self adopts sadness, happiness, anxiety etc and BECOMES sad, happy etc)

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

A feeling labelled "me" that imports other things.
"me"+sadness = me is sad
"me"+hungry= me is hungry

It adopts feelings and thought images situationally - so "me" is always changing with incoming input data from the senses.


By the way, like I said I can't answer any of these 100% confident that I am responding truthfully.
I know that all of these answers are wrong and are heavily relying on assumptions and beliefs - but when looking as truthfully as I possibly can this is how I interpret it all right now and I dont want to just give you fake answers that I know are "right".
I want to work at the level of my current seeing...

[Prism]

Am I investing too deeply into figuring out the technicality of things?
Yes I think I do. In fact, im sure of it. I cannot help it. Ive always wanted to pick things apart and try to understand.
Ive been told that is useless here, because the mind cannot understand this.

I realize that I can go a lifetime in circles around ´how things work´ and it will all amount up to intellectual understanding - unsatisfying in the long run.

LOOK. Your view of the world will shift. That's what we are watching for.

Am I this experience? Am I the totality of this experience? Everything in it?

[Prism]

Internally, I am almost laughing at myself for refusing to finally just let go of this mind made house of cards I call "me" because its falling apart card by card. Its quite obvious now that THAT cant be a self. A self isnt a real thing, and if it was it wouldnt be this.

All thats left now is for the mind to throw in the towel and give up.
It still wants proof, explanations, whys and hows.
It wants every question to be satisfied before surrendering.
Now, even that is seen to be part of the charade

[Anastacia42]

*whew*

That was exhausting, but in the end saved me a lot of work.

It still wants proof, explanations, whys and hows.
It wants every question to be satisfied before surrendering.
Now, even that is seen to be part of the charade

Mind will always want proof . Ignore it. This is not the place where it can be useful.

JUST LOOK

There's nothing there. Only thought.

Can you say 100% there's no separate "self?"

If so, how does it FEEL?

Loving,

[Prism]

I am so sorry for being difficult 🙃
Will try to keep the length of my writing shorter

Can you say 100% there's no separate "self?"

No.

I have done some more investigation and now I can frame the ”I” quite accurately:

What I am pointing to when saying I is
- A contraction, a control center, ”the resistance to what is”
Intertwined with:
- An obscure but prominent and very familiar emotion of general me-ness
Plus:
- internal images of me, shifting to match the current situation

This is EXACTLY what I ”see” when I look for myself.

[Anastacia42]

Don't worry about it. You're just addicted to lying.

I value truth above all else, so it was easier for "me."

So...

contraction

You could have stopped right there.

Everything you described is a lie of thinking. You can feel the contraction of lying.

Can you see that?

Loving,
Loving,