Struggling to see

[Stan]

Hello.
...

“I think, therefore I am.”

You don't need to think or even to perceive (probably) to exist, so that's weird.
...
Here goes the torturous section. The previous ones required simple looking, this one? I don't know.
Anyway, I have considered every question for a while, as always, and as honestly as I can.

Look at thoughts.
Where do they come from?

I don't know. Nothingness? Awareness? Perhaps this is a trick question, since thoughts are illusions so they don't come at all?

Can you control them?

A little bit, maybe. Depends on what is meant by the question. I can stop reacting to them and they slow down or stop when observed.

What influences thoughts?

Events and stuff in the world. Other thoughts. Moods, sensations. Anything, really. Thoughts are reflections, Angelo says.

Do you know what your next thought is going to be?

I can sometimes intuit that, kind of. I mean, when I think about Harry Potter movies, I will probably continue the thought train.

Can you stop a thought in the middle?

Not sure. Depends on the thought. If it is a long sentence, then yes, it seems this way at the moment.

Can you stop a thought from coming?

I don't know. Not sure this question makes sense.

Can you think just happy, pleasant thoughts for half an hour?

I can't. Maybe someone advanced meditators can.
///
it gets easier from now on.
///
Answer these questions for yourself, and notice the thinking process.

How do thoughts come?
In bundles, one after another, or one at a time?

I might not be able to slow down enough to give good answers. To me, there seems to be one main voice, which gives a sentence after sentence, along with labeling and maybe some other thoughts, directives, that go seemingly at once.

Does one thought give birth to another?

Usually it's a train of thought, so yes. Should a train stop, anything from the world might cause a reaction and subsequent thoughts.

Is the I-thought coming from a different place than all other thoughts?

I-thought? Where did that come from? What is Ilona talking about? My thoughts are usually something like "I like chicken", so sentences with (or without) the I word (a pronoun). It's not a thought by itself, just a part of it, that refers to the "I am" sense, or to the "Stan" thing, or maybe both.

Is “I” the thought or the thinker?

What is this "I" that is meant in this question? Not sure what is implied here.
///
to be continued

[Anastacia42]

Oh, Stan. So much thinking & so little looking.

I suggest you do not go in to more questions until you're perceiving these more clearly. I know you spent time with them. Stop paying attention to thoughts.

Please go back through them.

Start with this:

Look at thoughts.
Where do they come from?
I don't know. Nothingness? Awareness? Perhaps this is a trick question, since thoughts are illusions so they don't come at all?

It is not a trick question. Please include "I don't know." in your repertoire of answers.

We don't know! They simply arise.

Loving,

[Stan]

So much thinking & so little looking

I just need pointing/direction. I know now how to look with eyes or ears.

Look at thoughts.
Where do they come from?

I don't know/aware nothingness.

Can you control them?

I know that the answer is "no". But I don't feel it, don't see it.

What influences thoughts?

My answer stands

Do you know what your next thought is going to be?

No

Can you stop a thought in the middle?
Can you stop a thought from coming?
Can you think just happy, pleasant thoughts for half an hour?

Whatever. No.
///
I could use more feedback on my other answers...

[Anastacia42]

Better.

What influences thoughts?
Events and stuff in the world. Other thoughts. Moods, sensations. Anything, really. Thoughts are reflections, Angelo says.

Our other thoughts stories make it seem that way, but no. Otherwise, how do you explain suddenly thinking of corn flakes in the middle of watching a movie? And don't tell me it's because you're hungr; you're not.

Let's let this one go for a while and move on. I just hate to see the misunderstanding snowball.

Loving,

[Stan]

I might have finally seen today that thoughts are the same as awareness from which they come and into which they subside. Just expressions. Tricks I am playing on myself; veils; entertainment.
Nice, but just another small insight.
///
Tell me, please, what's up with the sense of self, sense of I? I am looking throught notes, gateless gatecrashers and affiliated article on fetters (simplytheseen by Kevin; https://findingawakening.com/direct-exp ... be-a-trap/ )
Here is one quote by Ilona from the book
"The sense of “me” that you are talking about is the feeling of “I am” which has always been here and never changes, plus labelling by the mind."
Also
"The sense of something is “I am”. It’s the sense of being, it’s unshakeable and yes, it is always here now. When you close your eyes it can be felt clearly. It’s not going to go away."
However, this quote by Elena in a different part seems to contradict!
"Now look for the “sense of self”. What is it? A thought, maybe a bodily sensation or feeling—look for it and break it down, divide and dissect what it really is."
Christiane also seems to suggest that dismantling this sense of I is necessary.

Finally - are we dealing with fetter 8 or are we ignoring it?

[Anastacia42]

We only guide Fetters 1, 2 & 3 here. For the rest, we refer you to fetter groups elsewhere.

Yes. "self" is a contraction or lie/no feeling plus a label and/ or story.

We are looking for a shift in perception that eventually occurs along with that recognition.

We cannot cause it. We can only set up the conditions for it to happen. I believe I've explained this before.

Maybe it would be a good idea for you to go back and re-read your entire thread from the beginning.. You are still trying to come at this with your mind and logic I believe.

Loving,

[Stan]

Hm... alright.
I will be spending time re-reading gatecrashers and a couple other things for now, I suppose.
I will still try to finish answering the steps however I can, might take me a bit of time.
Thank you

[Stan]

I have found a pretty helpful guiding session here.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4458&hilit=Geoffrey&start=30

Yes, at this point the question "who is experiencing it?" leads to an endless circular questioning

This is an unexpected resolution of the problem that Geoffrey was facing... and that I seem to be facing. I will have to look into this experientially.

[Stan]

Sorry for the spam, Stacy.
Could you, actually, weigh in on this topic, please?
The way it seems to me, Sense of self is one thing (yes, a sensation plus the labelling), but then there is this recursive thing - whatever experience is, it is experienced by something. Everything is an experience, including sense of self. But this means a subject-object duality... ok, I am getting confused again. I would not press about it, but it is an experiential thing, I don't think it's just an illusion. Or is it?
Am I getting this right? I have not seen it explicitly explained in LU.

[Anastacia42]

You are probably referring to what I call "awareness." I may have explained this before, as well. Some people call it "consciousness," but that term gets used for a lot of things and I don't use it.

Whatever it is, it is NOT a "self."

Do not try to make awareness into a "self." It won't go away. You will still be aware.

It is also NOT subject-object awareness. It feels like being a part of everything with no separation at all.

Did you ever do any drugs? Particularly hallucinogens? Many people report similar experiences with those. This is doing that *without* the drugs.

I wonder if a video call would help you any? I don't usually do those at all, but you are still struggling. Your Subject Line is sadly accurate. Don't struggle. RELAX

It is good that you are being persistent, but none of this thinking will help. Just relax and experience. Meditate. Ignore thoughts and do not believe anything they say. These questions are not helping you.

Much love,

[Stan]

Thank you. Yes, we have been here. It is easy to forget things sometimes. Your words bring relief. They remind me that it's not a problem, and awareness is not separable.
Drugs/hallucinogens - that's an oldshool nomenclature! Guess you are not a hippie! Yes, I have a modest experience, but sadly, most of my experiences were abnormal and on the verge of traumatizing. However, and I might have told you, my last trip threw me into delicious non-duality, at least to a big degree. It gave me a very good taste of no-self.
I feel honored by the offering of the call!) Not sure I am comfortable bothering you, and I am somewhat afraid of wasting your time, but I would be interested, maybe in a week or two.

[Anastacia42]

Okay Stan, just let me know.

I am nearly ready to say that I am officially retired. That said, I am not working at a job right now and I have plenty of time to talk with you if you want 2 in a week or

Much love,

[Anastacia42]

From my first post:

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.


Loving,

[Stan]

Hello.
Are rambling and journal like entries ok? Because that's all I have these days. Whatever insightfullness that I had from our recent "attack" is scattered. I feel like I am waiting for something.
I know I should have a formal practice for at least an hour a day, but I can't afford it right now.
Although no practice is needed to access this.
I am just overloaded, with non duality included. Too many imperatives, solutions, pointers.
Looking and not finding self does nothing, except for a period of non-dual seeing. Looking for what makes me feel as if there is someone here barely works, I am not sure what to look for or how.
I don't want to complain.
Anyway, I think you have already said that DE reports is all that is ok to post.

[Anastacia42]

Hi Stan,

Are rambling and journal like entries ok? Because that's all I have these days.

They're just stories. labels & thinking - no good for LOOKING. So, you're right. They won't help you look & they won't help me guide.

Sorry you feel overwhelmed.

know I should have a formal practice for at least an hour a day,

Says who? I never said that. A few minutes can be enough, as long as you're relaxed & LOOKING.

Here is an exercise that focuses a person in the present, and in a part of the brain that cannot do anxiety. Basically, go through each sense and say (or think) "I see/ hear/ feel/ taste/ touch ______________." A minute or two of each and usually anxiety is gone.

I see the couch.
I see the keyboard.
I see the glass. Etc.

I hear the train.
I hear the keys clacking.
I hear my breath. Etc.

I feel the couch under my butt.
I feel my fingers on the keys.
I feel the cold air. Etc.

I taste a metallic taste in my mouth.
I taste the coffee.
I taste the food. Etc.

I smell the humidity in the air.
I smell my husband's shampoo.
I smell the soap. Etc.

As far as I can tell, the only time this doesn't work is when someone won't do it.


Can you do the above once or twice a day?

does nothing, except for a period of non-dual seeing.

Nothing? That's not nothing! That could be the shift in perception we're looking for!

You could simply be seeing already, but stuck in doubt. Have you watched Pernille's video on doubt?

https://youtu.be/a_8N331jpA4?si=wHE8KmhO7n9uwLPp


Okay. See how that goes: shorter, very focused practice & review for doubt.

Loving,