Looking for 1 on 1

[neeeel]

Glad to have you around! If this ever gets to be too much for you or you don't want to do it anymore, just let me know, and I'll look for someone else.

Hi, I will stick with it to the end. Sorry for the delay in replying, occasionally I wont be able to reply for a day or two, doesnt mean I have lost interest though.

I can't remember what I saw (and yes, I saw it), but it's like the brain is just there doing it's own thing, e.g. thinking on it's own without a thinker. If it's raining, and the thought I need to wear my jacket" comes up, is that random. I don't know: From what I've seen it's all random, e.g. the thought I need to wear my raincoat doesn't randomly come up on a sunny day (It's not random in this sense.), but when it's raining and it comes up, there's no "me" making it come up (It's comes up randomly in response to the weather.). I hope this makes sense.

Well, I dont think random means what you think it means :D. maybe a better word is spontaneously? the thought "I need to wear a raincoat" comes up spontaneously in response to the weather? Thoughts just appear spontaneously, doing their own thing?
Yes, thinking without a thinker. In the same way that there is raining without a rainer. We say, "it is raining" but there is no "it" that is doing the raining. In the same way we say "I am thinking" but there is no "I" that is doing the thinking.
Is there also seeing without a seer?
Hearing without a hearer?
Tasting without a taster?

If you cant remember what it was you saw that triggered the realisation, look again. Its better to be able to see it each time, rather than rely on belief or memory.

There's no "me", there's no person called a "me" or an "I" in the middle of the tension. It's just tension being there, there's no person/me/I in it. I'm not in control of it. I can't make the pain be there (pain, which I wouldn't want), and I can't make it go away (which I would want--for it to go away). It's just muscles spasming or whatever causing/meaning/ tightness and tension are present.

Yes. Even further, if you close your eyes, then theres not even muscles spasming, or legs to hurt or whatever, there are just the sensations, without any knowledge about whether its muscles spasming. What Im trying to say is that thoughts of muscles spasming, or nerves firing, is just prior knowledge. We dont have direct experience of "A muscle", theres just awareness of the sensations. Hope that makes sense.

I'm going to look at this some more, as yes, the "me" is in the thoughts, but never to be found outside the thoughts. I want to look at it to see the realness/truth of it (to see it in action as it happens--that I have thoughts with "me" in them, but there's no "me" outside of the "me" that is only in the thoughts). I also hope this makes sense.

Yes, keep looking. I think you are close to seeing this clearly. Keep looking to see if "me" can be found anywhere outside of the contents of a thought? Keep looking at the stories, are any of them true?
Also , take a look at who or what it is that believes the thoughts, believes the stories?

[GotIt]

Hi, I will stick with it to the end. Sorry for the delay in replying, occasionally I wont be able to reply for a day or two, doesnt mean I have lost interest though.

Thanks! Whenever you can get back to me is fine. I'll keep working on it even if I don't hear from you.

Well, I dont think random means what you think it means :D. maybe a better word is spontaneously? the thought "I need to wear a raincoat" comes up spontaneously in response to the weather? Thoughts just appear spontaneously, doing their own thing?
Yes, thinking without a thinker. In the same way that there is raining without a rainer. We say, "it is raining" but there is no "it" that is doing the raining. In the same way we say "I am thinking" but there is no "I" that is doing the thinking.

Okay, yes spontaneously. Thoughts just come up on their own. There's no "person/me, etc. making them happen/appear, etc.

Is there also seeing without a seer?
Hearing without a hearer?
Tasting without a taster?

There's just seeing, hearing and tasting happening without a "person, etc." behind them. I'm going to look at these to really see them/verify it totally. There's just things like food hitting your tongue, and the taste/sensation being there and your brain interprets it, but there's no one tasting it.

If you cant remember what it was you saw that triggered the realisation, look again. Its better to be able to see it each time, rather than rely on belief or memory.

I'll look again.

Yes. Even further, if you close your eyes, then theres not even muscles spasming, or legs to hurt or whatever, there are just the sensations, without any knowledge about whether its muscles spasming. What Im trying to say is that thoughts of muscles spasming, or nerves firing, is just prior knowledge. We dont have direct experience of "A muscle", theres just awareness of the sensations. Hope that makes sense.

I'm definitely going to look at this. It's like putting stories on things, like from past experience when I have this feeling it means pain, so now that I'm having this feeling it must be pain. Somehow sensations got titled "pain" or something. From what I'm seeing when I close my eyes briefly right now, there's just sensations. I don''t know what they are, but I think they are muscle spasms, so I title them that.

Yes, keep looking. I think you are close to seeing this clearly. Keep looking to see if "me" can be found anywhere outside of the contents of a thought? Keep looking at the stories, are any of them true?
Also , take a look at who or what it is that believes the thoughts, believes the stories?

All I know so far, is that most of the stories have to do with me saving the world in some way, shape or form! I'll look into your questions above.

[GotIt]

Just checking in to let you know I'm still looking. The thoughts were very clear yesterday, although I didn't get any answer to any questions (I feel like I have an understanding of what to see, but I don't feel like I saw anything yesterday.).

Is there also seeing without a seer?
Hearing without a hearer?
Tasting without a taster?

I don't have direct experience of an answer, but when I look, I see that there's just taste happening, etc.

If you cant remember what it was you saw that triggered the realisation, look again. Its better to be able to see it each time, rather than rely on belief or memory.

I've looked, but haven't seen anything.

Yes. Even further, if you close your eyes, then theres not even muscles spasming, or legs to hurt or whatever, there are just the sensations, without any knowledge about whether its muscles spasming. What Im trying to say is that thoughts of muscles spasming, or nerves firing, is just prior knowledge. We dont have direct experience of "A muscle", theres just awareness of the sensations. Hope that makes sense.

I still feel pain, and can also see at times that it's just sensations.

Yes, keep looking. I think you are close to seeing this clearly. Keep looking to see if "me" can be found anywhere outside of the contents of a thought? Keep looking at the stories, are any of them true?

The stories are either about things in the past (usually things I did that bring up positive feelings, like me being good at something or doing something well), or they are stories about things in the future, and those are usually fantasies.

Also , take a look at who or what it is that believes the thoughts, believes the stories?

I haven't been able to see who or what it is that believes the thoughts/stories, but I'll keep looking.

Lastly, when looking yesterday, the thought of someone/I thought of someone/the idea/name of someone I don't like came into my mind. I then tried to look at who/where/what labeled this person as someone I don't like. I didn't see anything, didn't get any answer to the question of where the labeling came from/who did the labeling, but I want to keep looking at who's behind the believing about stories, thoughts, labeling of people, things, experiences, etc.

[neeeel]

Just checking in to let you know I'm still looking. The thoughts were very clear yesterday, although I didn't get any answer to any questions (I feel like I have an understanding of what to see, but I don't feel like I saw anything yesterday.).

Can you explain a bit more about this? What do you mean by "the thoughts were very clear"? What questions were you asking and where did you expect to get an answer from?

I don't have direct experience of an answer, but when I look, I see that there's just taste happening, etc.

This doesnt make sense. When you look and see that theres just taste happening, that is direct experience, no?

[GotIt]

Can you explain a bit more about this? What do you mean by "the thoughts were very clear"?

I could see them very clearly. It was quiet with no interruptions so it was easier to watch the thoughts arise and pass away, and easier to try to look to see who/what was behind them (if there is a who/what behind them, which from what I've seen so far, there isn't).

What questions were you asking and where did you expect to get an answer from?

I was looking at the questions you sent me: "Keep looking to see if "me" can be found anywhere outside of the contents of a thought? Keep looking at the stories, are any of them true? " and "take a look at who or what it is that believes the thoughts, believes the stories?"

When you look and see that there's just taste happening, that is direct experience, no?

Yes, although, I at times things like seeing/hearing, etc. happen so fast it seems like there's a "me" behind the receiving/interpreting them as they're received.

[neeeel]

I could see them very clearly. It was quiet with no interruptions so it was easier to watch the thoughts arise and pass away, and easier to try to look to see who/what was behind them (if there is a who/what behind them, which from what I've seen so far, there isn't).

Ok thats good.

What questions were you asking and where did you expect to get an answer from?

I was looking at the questions you sent me: "Keep looking to see if "me" can be found anywhere outside of the contents of a thought? Keep looking at the stories, are any of them true? " and "take a look at who or what it is that believes the thoughts, believes the stories?"

What I was asking was whether, as it seems to me, you are expecting the answer to appear as the content of a thought. Rather than looking at direct experience.

Yes, although, I at times things like seeing/hearing, etc. happen so fast it seems like there's a "me" behind the receiving/interpreting them as they're received.

Then keep looking. The "me" behind the receiving/interpreting, what is it? Is it the content of thoughts? As in, you see something, and then get a thought about you seeing something? Or a thought "I did that"?

[GotIt]

What I was asking was whether, as it seems to me, you are expecting the answer to appear as the content of a thought. Rather than looking at direct experience.

I don't think I'm expecting the answer to appear as the content of a thought. The answer comes as an experience.

Then keep looking. The "me" behind the receiving/interpreting, what is it? Is it the content of thoughts? As in, you see something, and then get a thought about you seeing something? Or a thought "I did that"?

I'll look. From what I've seen it's neither. There's no "me" in the thought about seeing something, and there's no "I did that.". There's no "I". It's just experiences, e.g. of seeing, happening.

[GotIt]

In looking this afternoon, looked at thoughts again and realized:

Thoughts are very real and definitely exist.

Sensations like wind on your skin are very real and definitely exist/happen.

Comparing the "I" to thoughts, the "I" is totally fuzzy and very different.

What I'm trying to say is that thoughts are very real, all that other stuff of a "me" is totally fuzzy when compared to the realness of a thought. There's a huge discrepancy between the two.

[neeeel]

Yes, thoughts are very real, and definitely exist. Does the content of thought always point to something real?

There can be thoughts of santa claus, those thoughts are real. does santa claus exist in reality?

Is there an "I" to be found anywhere outside of the content of a thought?

[GotIt]

Does the content of thought always point to something real?

No.

There can be thoughts of santa claus, those thoughts are real. does santa claus exist in reality?

Santa doesn't exist in reality.

Oh, I get what you're getting at: If the content of thought doesn't always point to something real, and if the thoughts of Santa Claus are real, but Santa Claus doesn't exist in reality, and if there is no "I" to be found anywhere outside of the content of a thought, then "I" can't exist in reality. "I" can only exist in thoughts. Said differently, "I" only exist in thoughts or "I" only exist in thoughts I tell myself about an "I", but "I" doesn't exist as a real entity. I have to look at the reality of this and experience it for real.

Is there an "I" to be found anywhere outside of the content of a thought?

The answer is no, but I have to keep looking to experience this for real.

[GotIt]

Haven't had awareness of no "I" existing anywhere except in thoughts. Will keep working/looking to see this.

Did have the awareness this morning that I use judging others as a way to "support" my "self", e.g. "I'm" right, "they're" wrong. I think this judging mind comes from the fact (yes, it's a truth/fact.), that I'm not always right about everything, and that my beliefs aren't always right, but "I" don't want to see that! Oh, wait, re-reading this I just realized that beliefs are just beliefs (from the dictionary: an opinion or conviction). They don't have certainty/factual evidence of truth to them.

Also was aware this morning of the need to just come at "me" from all sides/all angles to shoot the "me" belief down. I also want to work on this. Along with shooting the "me" belief down, I'm looking to see where "I'm" afraid of losing my "self". I don't feel any fear, but I know that there's something hanging on really strong and something that doesn't want to let go of a belief in a self (If there wasn't anything hanging on really strong, I think I would have just walked through the gate by now.).

The conundrum questions like the ones you sent yesterday are very helpful as they confuse the mind and force me to look at there being no "me". Please send more questions like that if you have them. Thanks.

[neeeel]

Haven't had awareness of no "I" existing anywhere except in thoughts. Will keep working/looking to see this.

The way you do this is by looking at things you think the "I" does, and seeing that it doesnt do any of them.
So, do you think your thoughts? Are you seeing, hearing and tasting? Are you making the decisions? Are you doing the actions?

Did have the awareness this morning that I use judging others as a way to "support" my "self", e.g. "I'm" right, "they're" wrong. I think this judging mind comes from the fact (yes, it's a truth/fact.), that I'm not always right about everything, and that my beliefs aren't always right, but "I" don't want to see that! Oh, wait, re-reading this I just realized that beliefs are just beliefs (from the dictionary: an opinion or conviction). They don't have certainty/factual evidence of truth to them.

Yes, this is good. We all think that our set of beliefs is the right one. If someone challenges a belief, then its a challenge to our self? We dont like being wrong. As you say, beliefs dont necessarily have any certainty or factual evidence behind them. So, are beliefs part of the stories? Are the beliefs yours?

Also was aware this morning of the need to just come at "me" from all sides/all angles to shoot the "me" belief down. I also want to work on this. Along with shooting the "me" belief down, I'm looking to see where "I'm" afraid of losing my "self". I don't feel any fear, but I know that there's something hanging on really strong and something that doesn't want to let go of a belief in a self (If there wasn't anything hanging on really strong, I think I would have just walked through the gate by now.).

Ok look into this fear more. Allow it to be, its just trying to protect. What is the fear about? What are you scared of?

[GotIt]

The way you do this is by looking at things you think the "I" does, and seeing that it doesnt do any of them.

Thanks. I'll do this.

So, do you think your thoughts? Are you seeing, hearing and tasting? Are you making the decisions? Are you doing the actions?

I don't think my thoughts. When I looked at thoughts this morning, they are very elusive, coming from nowhere, not my brain, not from "me", etc. They just float around or something. I'm not seeing, hearing, tasting. I still think I'm making decisions, like deciding to go to the grocery store, deciding when to go, etc., so this one is tricky and hard to see. I don't think I'm doing actions. I haven't been able to see that I'm not doing things, except that there are many things that happen automatically, like moving in my seat when I get sore, or reaching for a drink of water before I decide I want a drink, etc.

then its a challenge to our self?

Yes, if our beliefs are challenged, it's a challenge to our "self".

So, are beliefs part of the stories? Are the beliefs yours?

Beliefs are part of the stories that that I use to define "me", like the belief that "I am nice". I have to look to see if the beliefs are "mine".

Ok look into this fear more. Allow it to be, its just trying to protect. What is the fear about? What are you scared of?

I don't feel any fear. The thing I'm afraid of is losing control, so I guess this means there is some fear, but I don't feel afraid right now or anything.

[neeeel]

I don't think my thoughts. When I looked at thoughts this morning, they are very elusive, coming from nowhere, not my brain, not from "me", etc. They just float around or something. I'm not seeing, hearing, tasting. I still think I'm making decisions, like deciding to go to the grocery store, deciding when to go, etc., so this one is tricky and hard to see. I don't think I'm doing actions. I haven't been able to see that I'm not doing things, except that there are many things that happen automatically, like moving in my seat when I get sore, or reaching for a drink of water before I decide I want a drink, etc.

Ok, look at things that happen automatically, and things that you appear to be in control of, like decisions? What is the difference between the two? What is present when you appear to be in control, and not present when things appear to be automatic?

[neeeel]

Rose, here are another guides pointers for you

See the difference between IT, and About IT.
See the difference between a Thought, and the Content of that Thought.
If you See that there is a thought, and also See that the thought is About something.
That About, is a Story!
The Thought is Not. The Thought is an Experience.
Reacting to That Thought Experience, happens without judgement, without opinion, without belief. It happens without reacting to a Story and without building a New Story.
This is IT !!
Thoughts about This will happen.
You will See them and recognise them as part of a Story. You will simply ignore them as Just a Story ABOUT... and know that they mean about as much as the sound of the refrigerator.
That will be another Experience
This is IT.
This IS..!
IT Always Has Been. You just didn't SEE it before.
This is Totally Choice-less.
This is Total Trust that What needs to Happen. Will Happen. (and it Does..)
Stop scratching the Seeking Itch. That will let the bite heal.
Then it won't itch any more, much..
Well it does, but you can See that it's refrigerator sound.