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Re: Where to start
Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 2:00 pm
by CherylVT
Dear Seekingstill,
Thank you.
See brown color of skin
see different shapes of different body parts
hear the noise of my breath inhaling and exhaling
feel the clothes that touch my skin
taste the saliva in my mouth
Now let's get very detailed with DE.
Seeing--brown
Thought--it's a color
Thought--it's skin
[previously Thought = mine]
Please continue with the remaining 4 sensory experiences.
Love,
Cheryl
Re: Where to start
Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:53 pm
by Seekingstill
Now let's get very detailed with DE.
Seeing--brown
Thought--it's a color
Thought--it's skin
[previously Thought = mine]
Please continue with the remaining 4 sensory experiences.
thought- different shapes
thought- different body parts
hear the noise
thought-breath
thought-inhaling
thought- exhaling
feel
thought-clothes
thought-touch my skin
taste
thought- saliva
thought-in my mouth
Re: Where to start
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 1:40 am
by CherylVT
Dear Seekingstill,
Thank you!
Deeper Body Investigation
Here is an even deeper investigation of the body. Please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen.
Repeat the exercise several times.
Stand in front of a bigger mirror.
(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.
(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?
Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?
(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror. Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?
(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’?
Or only thoughts suggest it?
(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.
Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?
Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all? Or are there only colors and shapes?
(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen.
Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?
(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).
Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?
( Start to walk slowly.
Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?
Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?
Love,
Cheryl
Re: Where to start
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 4:06 am
by Seekingstill
I will need some time to investigate this
Re: Where to start
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 2:44 pm
by CherylVT
Dear Seekingstill,
Take your time.
I will be in an airplane tomorrow and traveling for the next 2 weeks, so i won't be as prompt in responding.
love,
cheryl
Re: Where to start
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 3:01 pm
by Seekingstill
Ok, have a good trip
Re: Where to start
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 10:49 pm
by Seekingstill
(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?
Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?
No connection, Just thoughts
(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror. Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?
No connection
(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’?
Or only thoughts suggest it?
no connection, only thoughts to suggest it
(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.
Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?
Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all? Or are there only colors and shapes?
Image by itself does not suggest anything, there are only colors and shapes that my eyes see, then thoughts arise and interpret what the color and shape is
6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen.
Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?
Image in the mirror does not suggest any 'knowledge', only thoughts suggest so
(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).
Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?
only sensations
( Start to walk slowly.
Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
only sensations
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
only sensations
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
just thoughts
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
just thoughts about a body
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?
no
Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?
sensation associated with images which are labelled by thoughts
Re: Where to start
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 11:58 pm
by CherylVT
Dear Seekingstill,
Good to hear from you!
Thanks for your responses.
Now, let’s have a look at the idea of control, choice and decisions. Please explore the two exercises below and report your findings.
1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.
2. Put two objects that you like in front of you (e.g. a cup of coffee and a glass of juice), then pick up one or the other, while paying attention to the whole process of choosing.
Watch like a hawk. Don't go to thoughts, examine the actual experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire…
How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
Can a ‘controller’ or and entity that is choosing be located?
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over.
If there is ‘here’ or ‘there’, there must be a refence point, right? Without center, “I” there is no reference point, hence no location. ‘Location’ (left, right, up, down, etc.) is a label, ‘here’ and ‘there’ are labels for various things (hearing, seeing, sensing).
So, is there a choice or just cause and effect playing out?
Love,
Cheryl
Re: Where to start
Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 8:20 pm
by Seekingstill
Sorry for the delay in reply, I did not get a notice that you posted, I went to check the site last night and noticed that you posted a while back. I will check the site daily from now on, in case i do not get a notice about a post.
Now, let’s have a look at the idea of control, choice and decisions. Please explore the two exercises below and report your findings.
1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.
2. Put two objects that you like in front of you (e.g. a cup of coffee and a glass of juice), then pick up one or the other, while paying attention to the whole process of choosing.
Watch like a hawk. Don't go to thoughts, examine the actual experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire…
How is the movement controlled?
I don't really know
Does a thought control it?
not sure
Can a ‘controller’ or and entity that is choosing be located?
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over.
I don't know, once i started turning the hand over and over, it did automatically without thought, occasionally a thought would arise, "turn", but i couldn't tell if it was before the turn ordering a turn or if it was after a turn, witnessing the turn.
If there is ‘here’ or ‘there’, there must be a refence point, right? Without center, “I” there is no reference point, hence no location. ‘Location’ (left, right, up, down, etc.) is a label, ‘here’ and ‘there’ are labels for various things (hearing, seeing, sensing).
So, is there a choice or just cause and effect playing out?
I don't think there is a choice. As Newton said, an object in motion stays in motion. once the hand started moving, it stayed moving. I think a thought to stop stopped it. perhaps a thought to start it also started it, but there were no words-"start" "stop", it just happened as if my conscious knew what to do in that moment.
Re: Where to start
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 12:56 am
by CherylVT
Dear Seekingstill,
Good to hear from you.
Yes, it's disconcerting when you (or i :) aren't notified of a recent post. So i'm glad you double-checked.
Neuroscience shows that the brain knows as much as four (or some say seven) seconds in advance what decision will be made.
Let’s explore choice, control and decision-making a bit further.
Can you take me through a biggish decision that you made recently - not something very personal so you share more details about it.
How did it come to be?
Consider all the conditions that were necessary for it to happen. If any one of those conditions were different, would the outcome have been the same?
How many of these conditions were outside of your influence?
What was in your control (according to thought)?
Please give me some details about your decision making.
Love,
Cheryl
Re: Where to start
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2024 5:35 am
by Seekingstill
Let’s explore choice, control and decision-making a bit further.
Can you take me through a biggish decision that you made recently - not something very personal so you share more details about it.
How did it come to be?
A
Consider all the conditions that were necessary for it to happen. If any one of those conditions were different, would the outcome have been the same?
Actually, today I made an offer to buy a house. I have been looking at buying a house since July 2023. I looked at a lot. A few s everal times, many times I thought I was close to buying one, but the conditions had to be right.
I first had to have my old house sold. The price of the new house had to be about the same. My kids had to like it. IT had to be close to my work and their school I made 2 offers before, but the buyers did not accept so I had to let them go. There are several on the market too expensive but I have been watching the price. Today, I saw a house that my real estate agent told me she did not want to show it to me before, but today when she saw the house, she said it was all redone. I went in thinking it was unlikely that I would buy this house, but it checked all my boxes. It was the first house both my kids liked. I wanted to see it again saturday, but the agent said there was someone else about to offer on it. They I discussed it with several people I trust and all of them said I should make an offer today, so I went to see a house that I least expected to buy and ended up offering for it. It is still possible that the buyer won't accept my offer. If that is the case, I will move on, that house wasn't meant for me. but conditions were ideal for me to make an offer.
How many of these conditions were outside of your influence?
almost all of them
What was in your control (according to thought)?
THe decision to make an offer to buy or not
Re: Where to start
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2024 3:01 pm
by CherylVT
Dear Seekingstill,
Wow! Congratulations on buying a new house, especially in this market!
What was in your control (according to thought)?
The decision to make an offer to buy or not
Yes, that's what thought says.
It would be an interesting exercise to untangle the decision to buy.
For instance,
what did your partner say? Did you have control over that?
Your children like it. Did you have control over that?
As you balanced the pluses and minuses in your mind, did you have any control over that?
What else factored into your decision? Banks, interest rates, selling your previous house, etc.
Did you have any control over those?
Love,
Cheryl
Re: Where to start
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2024 5:02 pm
by Seekingstill
what did your partner say? Did you have control over that?
his first reaction was a no, but after he heard how much we liked it, he told me to go ahead. no I did not have any control over his reaction/reactions
Your children like it. Did you have control over that?
no
As you balanced the pluses and minuses in your mind, did you have any control over that?
no
What else factored into your decision? Banks, interest rates, selling your previous house, etc.
Did you have any control over those?
banks and interest rates did not factor into it. I am paying cash using the money that I received from my previous house. I had no control over when and for how much my previous house sold for. It was on the market in august, at which time I could look at houses but could not buy them. Several of them got sold. I had no control over this. When it wouldn't sell, I did some repairs on my previous house (maybe i had control over this decision, but originally I did not want to, but something "changed" my mind. What is it, i don't know, it wasn't met). I was able to sell last month and received the cash I needed. I had no control over this, during that time I lost some houses I liked because I didn't have the cash. There are now some houses over the cash I have, but the owners wouldn't take my offer, so I have no control over that.
I am currently watching the drama unfold and play out. Several more things have to happen for me to get this house. The owner has to accept my offer. The inspection has to be good. My mother has to not hate it. i have no control over any of these things.
just the witness witnessing (even though intellectually I know there is no witness there to witness). I also have no control over my thoughts and desires and fears about this transaction. I am very excited (thought), really want it (thought), fear that I won't get it (thought). Where do these thoughts arise? I don't know. Who is controlling these thoughts? I don't know.
I wish "I" was, but if "I" was able to control them, i wouldn't have them. there are useless to have.
Re: Where to start
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2024 7:54 pm
by CherylVT
Dear Seekingstill,
Great inquiry. Thanks for looking.
There is a long list of events that has taken you to this new house. You see there is no decision at all – it’s all one thing leading to another, leading to another, and finally thought appears to announce that a decision has been made. But now let’s examine this even further:
Do cause and effect exist without thought?
How are ‘cause’ and ‘effect’ experienced directly?
What is time without memory (thought content)?
Can you directly experience ‘past’ or ‘future’? Can you directly experience ‘1 min ago’ or ‘1s ago’?
Love,
Cheryl
Re: Where to start
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 10:37 pm
by Seekingstill
Do cause and effect exist without thought?
NO
How are ‘cause’ and ‘effect’ experienced directly?
I don't know, if they are thoughts they can't be experienced
What is time without memory (thought content)?
time doesn't exist without memory
Can you directly experience ‘past’ or ‘future’? Can you directly experience ‘1 min ago’ or ‘1s ago’?
no