The Gate

Dear Rali, thank you so much for this. What you and your colleagues are doing is priceless. I so appreciate your time and generosity, and your willingness to keep me focussed.

What has changed and what hasn’t in normal everyday living. What changes? What stays the same?

What has changed is that thought doesn’t have the same “pull” as it did. Thoughts are still arising but they simply fall away in presence. Actually that is another thing there appears to be… more presence…just being here with the simplicity of whatever is happening. There is still a pull when things get tricky but nowhere near what it was.

There is a lightness.

What is the biggest difference from before starting this conversation?
Is seeking still going on?

This is interesting. Inquiry still takes place, but it’s not “intended” like previously.
The emotional life is much more accessible. Sitting quietly this morning I could feel previously stuck emotions were actually freeing up. The vice like grip of the “self” has been loosened.

Is there any confusion at all or anything you would like to address?

Not at the moment. There is a trust in this.

Can you say with a big fat YES, it is clear what the illusion of a separate self is?

It’s no more real than Donald Duck. Donald Duck is actually deaf, dumb and blind because it's just a character in a story.

The illusion of a separate self is a mental image, a label. It’s reinforced by memory - thought/image.

A metaphor came to mind. There is a jar of marmalade, and this jar of marmalade has a label on it, and the label is Jam. The marmalade sees the label and wonders where the marmalade is. It looks all over for the marmalade but all it “sees” is jam…I won’t take the metaphor too far.

Love, Ken ...🙏

Hi Ken
It gives me so much pleasure to read your reply. This is what makes this so rewarding.

A metaphor came to mind. There is a jar of marmalade, and this jar of marmalade has a label on it, and the label is Jam. The marmalade sees the label and wonders where the marmalade is. It looks all over for the marmalade but all it “sees” is jam…I won’t take the metaphor too far.

:)))

We have some traditional final questions. Would you like to answer those?

Love
Rali

Hi Rali, yes please send them over..🙏

Hi Ken

Great!
Here are the final questions. Please answer all questions in full, when you are ready. Please answer what's true for you rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Love
Rali

Hi Rali, will get back to you tomorrow..🙏

Hi Rali, sorry but caught up with birthday celebrations, will report back tomorrow..🙏

Hi Ken. Thanks for letting me know! Happy birthday to whomever is celebrating!
Love
Rali

Hello Rali, yes christmas, new year and now a birthday. That's enough for a while I think.

Thank you Rali, for your time and effort, it is so appreciated. I never thought it was so simple. More than that actually, it's the directness and immediacy of it that is surprising. How all these years I have taken the contents of thought to be real...madness.

Here are some responses to your questions. Love to you, Ken

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No. There is just experiencing. There are jut the 5/6 senses functioning without a manager. if ther isn't one now how could there have ever been. It's all been imagined.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

It is a thought/label which then because it is attached to “presence” to “being” feels very real. That as I see it is because “presence” or “being” is real. It appears to be a central point which for me was/is around the eyes or just behind. I thought I had to get rid of the separate self, but when you said that we just need to see its true identity something clicked. It is reinforced by memory/thought, and when there is strong emotion and those “personal” thoughts are believed. It is reinforced by the constant “selfing” of thinking about self. Crazy. It’s all a story.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

A relief, a lightness but also realising that this is only the beginning. I know enough to realise that there is some “clearing out” to do of old repressed stuff. However, even now I can see how much more accessible the emotional life is. Before starting the dialogue there was a lot of frustration and many questions, but now I don’t have any questions whatsoever. I see now what my first teacher Charlotte Joko Beck was pointing too, but I wasn’t ready.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

A few areas, what I mentioned above was a ha ha moment. It was exploring what the “seer” looked like which was the turning point. Then came exploring intention. If I had to choose one it was exploring what the seer looked like.

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Deciding to have a cup of tea. There is a movement to make a cup of tea from where I don’t know, and I don’t think I can know. Then thought comes in and says I think I will have a cup of tea. It comes in after a decision has already been made.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

This has been helpful. There is no “personal” intention anywhere. Thought can say move your foot and nothing happens. Thought doesn’t control anything. I notice when the thumb moves it just moves, when the head turns it just turns. It’s like nothing is moving it, but it moves.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Free will is just an idea…a thought. If there isn’t a thought about free will…then what! It’s an idea to give us a sense of direction and purpose and to make us feel like we have some control.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Choosing happens, it’s not that there is no choice but the choosing happens. I can’t say exactly how it happens as there is a whole load of conditioning gone on which determines the choices made.
When making tea in the morning I always went for a certain cup, my favourite cup. About two weeks ago I noticed that I was picking up any cup of a good size. There wasn’t a conscious choice to drink from a different cup it just started happening.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

It’s imagined like everything else. An image/thought of the future pops up then the desire to steer life in that way. It’s all imagination. I imagine walking my dog, but when the time comes to walk him it just happens.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

The best I can do here is to say they just happen. There is a natural intelligence “behind” all of this which, I am coming to trust in more and more. I don’t know what it is.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

The first thing which came to mind is… What is Donald Duck responsible for? Not really sure about this as I haven’t really explored this.
But a few words anyway…

I am responsible for everything I do and nothing I do. I am completely guilty and completely innocent.
I shouted at my dog the other day which I am responsible for because it wasn’t my wife who did it, but it just happened and it happened because of all the threads of conditions at play, including the feeling of being sorry to my dear little boy.

Relatively I am responsible for driving on the right side of the road stopping at traffic lights etc, but these just happen - it’s natural functioning as far as I can see.

6) Anything to add?

This is very subtle and I realise it’s only the beginning.
What surprised me the most is how I missed the absence of something. The absence of a lot of mental struggle was completely overlooked until it wasn’t. Not sure if I am through the gate or not but, “who cares”?

Much love to you Rali, ever appreciative, Ken

Hi Ken

Thank you so much for your lovey answers!

A guide has a question for you

Not sure if I am through the gate or not but, “who cares”?

Is there any doubt? What could possibly cross the gateless gate?

Love
Rali

Hi Rali, the gate is an idea, the self is an idea...an idea cannot pass through an idea. If there is no idea, no thought then what is there to to do.

Thank you Rali, you have been brill...so clear and challenging at the same time...love to you, Ken

Hi Rali, just in case I wasn’t clear, there is no doubt. Self deception has been seen…a big thank you to you and the team… Ken 🙏

Hi Ken

Thank you! I will pass your answer to the guides :) Please keep on checking the thread in case there are more questions

Love
Rali

🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

Hi Ken
Welcome home!

Thank you for your beautiful answers! It has been such a pleasure to walk beside you through the gateless gate! Your openness and willingness to look were simply awesome and made guiding you a joy.

You will receive an email notifying you of a PM from the forum, inviting you to join LU's Facebook groups. It also has other information that might be of interest to you. I will inbox you my contact details if you want to stay in touch. If you have any questions, just ask, or you can drop a line on your thread here and I will respond.

Your username will change from green to blue which indicates that you have had the realisation of no separate self. This thread will be moved to the ‘Archive’ section of the forum, but you will be able to access it.

Please don’t forget that this is just the beginning of exploring. It’s the beginning of cleaning up of all sorts of old beliefs. Emotions and feelings can show up to be seen and felt, so don’t stop looking! Please feel free to contact me, so we can have a look together, if you like.

I also think that you would make a wonderful guide, if you’re willing to explore it, when you feel ready. It can be very rewarding and it help you deepen your understanding.

We have a couple of support groups that are meeting via teleconference.
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Meet up with Vince Shubert (For LU seekers & guides)
Write to vinceschubert@gmail.com for the link & schedule.
As far as I know, there is one each Monday 6 am Sydney DAYLIGHT SAVING time – AEDT
There is also one each Saturday at 9pm (AEDT)
There is a Guide training one each Monday 5am Sydney DAYLIGHT SAVING time - AEDT
Please note that it's always the same time on the same link. Arriving late and leaving early is fine.
You can convert time zones here; https://www.worldtimebuddy.com
Click here to Join Zoom Meeting
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/86991485768...
Meeting ID: 869 9148 5768
Passcode: 083035
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Luchana & Lubo run one on Thursdays 6 pm CET. Write to Luchana at luchanauzunova@gmail.com

https://www.youtube.com/@LuchanaLubo/streams
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Ilona's Meetings
Ilona holds a monthly meeting. Write admin@ilonaciunaite.com for that link & schedule
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(videos)
Hi everyone.
Starting on 15th of October for 5 weeks I will post a new video of guiding sessions we had with Jim.
Here is a link to the first one.
https://youtu.be/gb6FwZ6PlI4
Liberation Unleashed Direct Pointing - The Gateless Gate
Ilona
For Fetters:
Todd has teleconference group that meets - I think every 2 weeks.
There is also www.findingawakening.com but Christine has a waiting list.
And Kevin Shinilac has instructions on his site https://www.simplytheseen.com/

Love
Rali