Oh Janine,
It's not the way you planned to start the new year I'm thinking.
Just do your best to watch thoughts as you are doing and the stories that spin out. So easy to be caught up in them. And the default reaction is typically to "fix" it all. Be gentle with yourself as you do your best to just watch thoughts do their thing.
I understand what you are saying about being intoxicated by indirect experience. Catching this happening is all that needs to be done.
Thank you so much for letting me know. Just let me know when you're ready to resume.
May your healing be complete.
With love
Alan
In time and out of it.
-
JanineJanaki
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2023 2:31 pm
Re: In time and out of it.
Hello Alan.
Still in the hospital, watching the stories. One of them failed to play out. No matter. On to the next.
A few questions:
1. Five years ago there was a paradigm shift when “change your thinking change your life” invited indulgence in the power of “right thinking.” This was helpful until it was not. A stepping stone?
2. Are all thoughts “lies,” and not to be trusted? (One story claims to have the solution for the present physical/mental distress). Something thinks it knows, and something knows that it can never know. Is it possible to stop pretending and defending while still mind-identified?
3. Is it helpful to “hang onto” life preservers such as “if it could have been otherwise, it would have been,” and “all things work for the Good,” in times of mind storm, or not? “I feel The Verity” - but this is not exactly nondual, is it?
In meditation, the folly of “aligning with The Way” was Seen. How could that (trying to align with the Way) be when All Is The Way?
Sorry for indirect communication.
Thank you.
Janine
Still in the hospital, watching the stories. One of them failed to play out. No matter. On to the next.
A few questions:
1. Five years ago there was a paradigm shift when “change your thinking change your life” invited indulgence in the power of “right thinking.” This was helpful until it was not. A stepping stone?
2. Are all thoughts “lies,” and not to be trusted? (One story claims to have the solution for the present physical/mental distress). Something thinks it knows, and something knows that it can never know. Is it possible to stop pretending and defending while still mind-identified?
3. Is it helpful to “hang onto” life preservers such as “if it could have been otherwise, it would have been,” and “all things work for the Good,” in times of mind storm, or not? “I feel The Verity” - but this is not exactly nondual, is it?
In meditation, the folly of “aligning with The Way” was Seen. How could that (trying to align with the Way) be when All Is The Way?
Sorry for indirect communication.
Thank you.
Janine
Re: In time and out of it.
Lovely to hear Janine
I know you'd be disappointed to settle merely for a thought answer. These questions give rise to wonderful doors to inquire, to LOOK as we look for answers, as best we can, BEYOND thought.
Can anything that we prove to be different to what it promised or what we thought it to be - and SEEN for what it truly is - not be a "stepping stone"?
Here is an analogy that may or may not help.
If you were to go down to the Pacific ocean on your beautiful west coast and fill a bottle from the ocean, and send it to me with such a heartfelt message "This is the Pacific Ocean" would I be able to experience the Pacific Ocean or not?
Is ANY thought anything more, at best, than a fragment which is imagined ABOUT a "thing"
Is a thought about "something" in any way, shape or form a part of that "something?"
While claiming to know all about "something" is that thought in any way known by the "thing" it claims to know?
When you drop the label "The Way" is "it" anything other than what you truly are which is not believing what you THINK you are and simply BEING?
Just as you are doing keep opening to whatever is unfolding and WATCH/LOOK and FEEL what is being experienced as deep as you can without paying any attention to thought.
In the midst of all that is happening or not happening, let that which so often can be missed, that which is so subtle and tender, that which forever "cradles" all of experience - just let THAT show itself.
With love
Alan
I certainly am not !!😊Sorry for indirect communication.
I know you'd be disappointed to settle merely for a thought answer. These questions give rise to wonderful doors to inquire, to LOOK as we look for answers, as best we can, BEYOND thought.
How does it FEEL to you?1. Five years ago there was a paradigm shift when “change your thinking change your life” invited indulgence in the power of “right thinking.” This was helpful until it was not. A stepping stone?
Can anything that we prove to be different to what it promised or what we thought it to be - and SEEN for what it truly is - not be a "stepping stone"?
Thoughts appear but are their contents, in and of themselves, ever real?Are all thoughts “lies,” and not to be trusted?
Here is an analogy that may or may not help.
If you were to go down to the Pacific ocean on your beautiful west coast and fill a bottle from the ocean, and send it to me with such a heartfelt message "This is the Pacific Ocean" would I be able to experience the Pacific Ocean or not?
Is ANY thought anything more, at best, than a fragment which is imagined ABOUT a "thing"
Is a thought about "something" in any way, shape or form a part of that "something?"
While claiming to know all about "something" is that thought in any way known by the "thing" it claims to know?
Are these not just thoughts which distract from and cloud direct experience of the now which offers all we need right now and where Good actually is found in its fullness?3. Is it helpful to “hang onto” life preservers such as “if it could have been otherwise, it would have been,” and “all things work for the Good,” in times of mind storm, or not?
Ah yes ! And what is it that wants to align with the way?In meditation, the folly of “aligning with The Way” was Seen. How could that (trying to align with the Way) be when All Is The Way?
When you drop the label "The Way" is "it" anything other than what you truly are which is not believing what you THINK you are and simply BEING?
Just as you are doing keep opening to whatever is unfolding and WATCH/LOOK and FEEL what is being experienced as deep as you can without paying any attention to thought.
In the midst of all that is happening or not happening, let that which so often can be missed, that which is so subtle and tender, that which forever "cradles" all of experience - just let THAT show itself.
With love
Alan
-
JanineJanaki
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2023 2:31 pm
Re: In time and out of it.
Hi Alan!!
Makes me weep and weep. So sick of stories, familiar though they may be. Thoughts conclude as if they know. There is no secure and stable knowing in this way.
Can anything that we prove to be different to what it promised or what we thought it to be - and SEEN for what it truly is - not be a "stepping stone"?
Agree, but no solace felt now.
Ghosts it seems. Illusions after the “fact” of Now that assert even though, in Reality, there’s no after Now.
If you were to go down to the Pacific ocean on your beautiful west coast and fill a bottle from the ocean, and send it to me with such a heartfelt message "This is the Pacific Ocean" would I be able to experience the Pacific Ocean or not?
Certainly not!
Is ANY thought anything more, at best, than a fragment which is imagined ABOUT a "thing"
No, just a fragment, but the fragment claims that details are important to navigate space/time.
Is a thought about "something" in any way, shape or form a part of that "something?"
Thought wants to be a part and so directs – vicarious union.
While claiming to know all about "something" is that thought in any way known by the "thing" it claims to know?
No.
Weeping and concurring. Something trusts imagination more than Reality. Inclination (thought) to cease speaking, as if that action could stop the delusion. Willing to let go of the life preserver.
Thoughts want to align with The Way.
When you drop the label "The Way" is "it" anything other than what you truly are which is not believing what you THINK you are and simply BEING?
More tears. Yes. Being. Flow, which cannot possibly be apart from anything.
(On a practical note, I see that I am using the quote function a little differently than perhaps intended. Is it ok to continue copying your questions in blue, answering in bold, and quoting when it is pertinent?)
And… I am out of the hospital but the pain persists. I need to see a dentist tomorrow, but wish to continue the investigation.
Thank you!!
Love,
Janine
How does it FEEL to you?1. Five years ago there was a paradigm shift when “change your thinking change your life” invited indulgence in the power of “right thinking.” This was helpful until it was not. A stepping stone?
Makes me weep and weep. So sick of stories, familiar though they may be. Thoughts conclude as if they know. There is no secure and stable knowing in this way.
Can anything that we prove to be different to what it promised or what we thought it to be - and SEEN for what it truly is - not be a "stepping stone"?
Agree, but no solace felt now.
Thoughts appear but are their contents, in and of themselves, ever real?Are all thoughts “lies,” and not to be trusted?
Ghosts it seems. Illusions after the “fact” of Now that assert even though, in Reality, there’s no after Now.
If you were to go down to the Pacific ocean on your beautiful west coast and fill a bottle from the ocean, and send it to me with such a heartfelt message "This is the Pacific Ocean" would I be able to experience the Pacific Ocean or not?
Certainly not!
Is ANY thought anything more, at best, than a fragment which is imagined ABOUT a "thing"
No, just a fragment, but the fragment claims that details are important to navigate space/time.
Is a thought about "something" in any way, shape or form a part of that "something?"
Thought wants to be a part and so directs – vicarious union.
While claiming to know all about "something" is that thought in any way known by the "thing" it claims to know?
No.
Are these not just thoughts which distract from and cloud direct experience of the now which offers all we need right now and where Good actually is found in its fullness?Is it helpful to “hang onto” life preservers such as “if it could have been otherwise, it would have been,” and “all things work for the Good,” in times of mind storm, or not?
Weeping and concurring. Something trusts imagination more than Reality. Inclination (thought) to cease speaking, as if that action could stop the delusion. Willing to let go of the life preserver.
Ah yes ! And what is it that wants to align with the way?In meditation, the folly of “aligning with The Way” was Seen. How could that (trying to align with the Way) be when All Is The Way?
Thoughts want to align with The Way.
When you drop the label "The Way" is "it" anything other than what you truly are which is not believing what you THINK you are and simply BEING?
More tears. Yes. Being. Flow, which cannot possibly be apart from anything.
Alan, It is showing Itself through this interaction. The tender Truth and Compassion are palpable. MUCH GRATITUDE.In the midst of all that is happening or not happening, let that which so often can be missed, that which is so subtle and tender, that which forever "cradles" all of experience - just let THAT show itself.
(On a practical note, I see that I am using the quote function a little differently than perhaps intended. Is it ok to continue copying your questions in blue, answering in bold, and quoting when it is pertinent?)
And… I am out of the hospital but the pain persists. I need to see a dentist tomorrow, but wish to continue the investigation.
Thank you!!
Love,
Janine
Re: In time and out of it.
So much here Janine.
Your honesty is so felt.
I'm wondering if there is a predominant underlying emotion here?
And what is the sensation you feel in that emotion the most?
Somehow I can feel a feeling of being trapped running through what you write.
Does that ring true for you?
Whatever the case it is worthwhile to look at this feeling of being trapped which is rarely not lurking somewhere.
This illusory “me” is the fabric around which is built something that has us feel we are imprisoned. Shame, guilt incompleteness, feeling fractured, I’m not OK, and the myriad of emotions are just beliefs that in complicity with this me creates what are experienced as prison bars within which we believe we are trapped. Along with thoughts and comparisons of past memories and future speculation we get hypnotized by this fabricated prison.
And of course this is hammered home relentlessly by the voice in the head
The dismantling of this imagined prison can at times seem so painful because it is something that has become so familiar and is now being torn away often unconsciously.
Our very identity is being threatened and torn down. And thus we feel pain as we resist this - often unconsciously.
This exploration is to reveal the mechanisms of the mind that create this phenomenon. Clearly seeing this is all that is required.
So please take a look at the stories that are running under all that you wrote.
Is there a common theme running?
Ask the mind and the voice in the head by what authority these thoughts are imposed?
Amongst all the clamour of thoughts can you find a "me" thought (actual or implied) that seems to be a reference point for other thoughts to become attached to? (Be patient - this is typically challenging but so worthwhile)
Can you give me an example from your direct experience of how identification happens when a "me" thought "coalesces" with other thought(s) and creates a story that you believe? (Again just do your best)
With love
Alan
Your honesty is so felt.
It's such a mystery how and why we hold on.Something trusts imagination more than Reality
Your pain is felt.Makes me weep and weep.
I'm wondering if there is a predominant underlying emotion here?
And what is the sensation you feel in that emotion the most?
Somehow I can feel a feeling of being trapped running through what you write.
Does that ring true for you?
Whatever the case it is worthwhile to look at this feeling of being trapped which is rarely not lurking somewhere.
This illusory “me” is the fabric around which is built something that has us feel we are imprisoned. Shame, guilt incompleteness, feeling fractured, I’m not OK, and the myriad of emotions are just beliefs that in complicity with this me creates what are experienced as prison bars within which we believe we are trapped. Along with thoughts and comparisons of past memories and future speculation we get hypnotized by this fabricated prison.
And of course this is hammered home relentlessly by the voice in the head
The dismantling of this imagined prison can at times seem so painful because it is something that has become so familiar and is now being torn away often unconsciously.
Our very identity is being threatened and torn down. And thus we feel pain as we resist this - often unconsciously.
This exploration is to reveal the mechanisms of the mind that create this phenomenon. Clearly seeing this is all that is required.
So please take a look at the stories that are running under all that you wrote.
Is there a common theme running?
Ask the mind and the voice in the head by what authority these thoughts are imposed?
Amongst all the clamour of thoughts can you find a "me" thought (actual or implied) that seems to be a reference point for other thoughts to become attached to? (Be patient - this is typically challenging but so worthwhile)
Can you give me an example from your direct experience of how identification happens when a "me" thought "coalesces" with other thought(s) and creates a story that you believe? (Again just do your best)
Works well for me Janine(On a practical note, I see that I am using the quote function a little differently than perhaps intended. Is it ok to continue copying your questions in blue, answering in bold, and quoting when it is pertinent?)
All the best with the dentist and I'm here for you to continue at the pace you feel you can handleAnd… I am out of the hospital but the pain persists. I need to see a dentist tomorrow, but wish to continue the investigation.
With love
Alan
-
JanineJanaki
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2023 2:31 pm
Re: In time and out of it.
Hi Alan.
I'm wondering if there is a predominant underlying emotion here?
The despair and pain of the ages, every tear/contraction that ever was, is, and will be.
And what is the sensation you feel in that emotion the most?
A contraction in the gut, the whole world pulling in upon itself.
Yes, no way out!!!! Not feeling it now, but there were times when experiencing suicidal despair where I felt trapped within my own skin, which was beyond claustrophobic and downright creepy. Now there’s just no way out. Imploding.
So please take a look at the stories that are running under all that you wrote.
Is there a common theme running?
Thought: “Please tell me what’s going on really, because I suspect that what I think I know is quite unstable and easily threatened; therefore, I need lots of validation from many different sources. Maybe then, I will feel sure and be free from doubt and incessant seeking.”
Ask the mind and the voice in the head by what authority these thoughts are imposed?
More thoughts… gathering evidence of “my” failure to see The Truth. No specific authority. Just thoughts. Arguing among themselves. Asking, “Who do you (thoughts) answer to?” Silence.
Amongst all the clamour of thoughts can you find a "me" thought (actual or implied) that seems to be a reference point for other thoughts to become attached to? (Be patient - this is typically challenging but so worthwhile)
Thought, “Well of course it’s about me.” Looking at this thought, it is just like any other thought… growing larger with belief… neutral with observation.
Can you give me an example from your direct experience of how identification happens when a "me" thought "coalesces" with other thought(s) and creates a story that you believe? (Again just do your best)
Noticing body posture, leaning back with arms crossed (“defensive,” a thought). “Happens so seamlessly that it cannot be seen,” a thought. Noticing stirring in the belly. Label, “hunger,” already tangled with “I’m.” The thought, “This ‘I’ is all about me,” laughing at its own jokes.
Going to continue with this Looking…
The pace is good. Apparently, a route canal is in order. Pain is managed. Going with Flow…
Thank you!!
Peace.
Love,
Janine
Your pain is felt.Makes me weep and weep.
I'm wondering if there is a predominant underlying emotion here?
The despair and pain of the ages, every tear/contraction that ever was, is, and will be.
And what is the sensation you feel in that emotion the most?
A contraction in the gut, the whole world pulling in upon itself.
Does that ring true for you?Somehow I can feel a feeling of being trapped running through what you write.
Yes, no way out!!!! Not feeling it now, but there were times when experiencing suicidal despair where I felt trapped within my own skin, which was beyond claustrophobic and downright creepy. Now there’s just no way out. Imploding.
Other times in acute depression, when feeling there was no way that demands could possibly be met, I would feel frantic, head moving wildly about, body looking for an escape route from life.Whatever the case it is worthwhile to look at this feeling of being trapped which is rarely not lurking somewhere.
There is no running from delusion. It persists, like a shadow.This illusory “me” is the fabric around which is built something that has us feel we are imprisoned. Shame, guilt incompleteness, feeling fractured, I’m not OK, and the myriad of emotions are just beliefs that in complicity with this me creates what are experienced as prison bars within which we believe we are trapped. Along with thoughts and comparisons of past memories and future speculation we get hypnotized by this fabricated prison.
So please take a look at the stories that are running under all that you wrote.
Is there a common theme running?
Thought: “Please tell me what’s going on really, because I suspect that what I think I know is quite unstable and easily threatened; therefore, I need lots of validation from many different sources. Maybe then, I will feel sure and be free from doubt and incessant seeking.”
Ask the mind and the voice in the head by what authority these thoughts are imposed?
More thoughts… gathering evidence of “my” failure to see The Truth. No specific authority. Just thoughts. Arguing among themselves. Asking, “Who do you (thoughts) answer to?” Silence.
Amongst all the clamour of thoughts can you find a "me" thought (actual or implied) that seems to be a reference point for other thoughts to become attached to? (Be patient - this is typically challenging but so worthwhile)
Thought, “Well of course it’s about me.” Looking at this thought, it is just like any other thought… growing larger with belief… neutral with observation.
Can you give me an example from your direct experience of how identification happens when a "me" thought "coalesces" with other thought(s) and creates a story that you believe? (Again just do your best)
Noticing body posture, leaning back with arms crossed (“defensive,” a thought). “Happens so seamlessly that it cannot be seen,” a thought. Noticing stirring in the belly. Label, “hunger,” already tangled with “I’m.” The thought, “This ‘I’ is all about me,” laughing at its own jokes.
Going to continue with this Looking…
The pace is good. Apparently, a route canal is in order. Pain is managed. Going with Flow…
Thank you!!
Peace.
Love,
Janine
Re: In time and out of it.
Hello dear Janine,
Glad to hear there seems to be some progress on the health front.
And as you continue with this LOOKING here's a couple of things to be aware of.
Try and slow the thought stream down by paying attention to each thought as it arises. Take any one thought and see if you can magnify it, look at each word if it is a "word" thought or look closely at each color in the image if it is an "image" thought.
What happens when you do this? What is experienced?
As well as watching thoughts, look for / gently feel into where any stillness might be. It may be very subtle.
Can you FEEL or SENSE stillness anywhere?
If so tell me where
With love
Alan
Glad to hear there seems to be some progress on the health front.
Wonderful.Going to continue with this Looking…
And as you continue with this LOOKING here's a couple of things to be aware of.
Try and slow the thought stream down by paying attention to each thought as it arises. Take any one thought and see if you can magnify it, look at each word if it is a "word" thought or look closely at each color in the image if it is an "image" thought.
What happens when you do this? What is experienced?
As well as watching thoughts, look for / gently feel into where any stillness might be. It may be very subtle.
Can you FEEL or SENSE stillness anywhere?
If so tell me where
With love
Alan
-
JanineJanaki
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2023 2:31 pm
Re: In time and out of it.
Dear Alan,
I see a thought remind to “catch a thought,” while driving. Watching thoughts, seeing them as if type-written. Focusing on details of images… all the while, world passing by, or through. Focusing slows the rapid-fire launching of thoughts. Noticing a plan, part image, part words, then caught a counter-thought in type – “We’re not going with that, no time for…” And another thought, “Who’s we?”
As well as watching thoughts, look for / gently feel into where any stillness might be. It may be very subtle.
Can you FEEL or SENSE stillness anywhere?
Stillness is everywhere. After focusing, with thought stream slowed, sobs in the Silence. Aware of fragments of explanations, but more drawn to the sounds of the body, allowed to be natural in its expression.
My sister moved out today. Aware of the thought, typewritten, “It had to come to chaos for her to go.”
Aware of knowing nothing.
Peace.
Love,
Janine
What happens when you do this? What is experienced?Try and slow the thought stream down by paying attention to each thought as it arises. Take any one thought and see if you can magnify it, look at each word if it is a "word" thought or look closely at each color in the image if it is an "image" thought.
I see a thought remind to “catch a thought,” while driving. Watching thoughts, seeing them as if type-written. Focusing on details of images… all the while, world passing by, or through. Focusing slows the rapid-fire launching of thoughts. Noticing a plan, part image, part words, then caught a counter-thought in type – “We’re not going with that, no time for…” And another thought, “Who’s we?”
As well as watching thoughts, look for / gently feel into where any stillness might be. It may be very subtle.
Can you FEEL or SENSE stillness anywhere?
Stillness is everywhere. After focusing, with thought stream slowed, sobs in the Silence. Aware of fragments of explanations, but more drawn to the sounds of the body, allowed to be natural in its expression.
My sister moved out today. Aware of the thought, typewritten, “It had to come to chaos for her to go.”
Aware of knowing nothing.
Peace.
Love,
Janine
Re: In time and out of it.
Hello Janine
We're going to slow this right down and take it a step at a time. This requires radical honesty. You have said yourself that thought cannot be trusted. So do not look to ANY thought for an answer here and watch like a hawk that thought does not slide in unawares.
You say....
Does "everywhere" include you?
Is there a boundary between you and stillness?
Would you describe you as anything else other than stillness?
Can you find any "thing" in the stillness that you can pinpoint and say "that's me right there"
As you LISTEN AND FEEL into sound deeply is there any information at all in the sound in and of itself. or is there only the experiencing of that which we call sound?
If you do become aware of "information" about the sound does it actually arise from within the sound itself or is it actually the voice in the head, the narrator of thought having its say?
Is any thought about the sound part of the sound itself or even a pure reflection of the sound or just a mental abstraction about the sound?
What is the "raw" pure sound made of?
If someone demanded that you describe the experiencing of sound it is there anything that comes close?
What does the sound arise in? What "cradles" it?
Can any thought(s) actually truly and totally describe the experiencing of sound?
Is there some "thing" hearing sound?
Can you distinguish between the sound and the hearing - where does one start and the other begin?
Is hearing and sound just two different attempts to label / describe what is being experienced?
As you hear sounds in the body and you feel a sensation are these experienced in different "places"?
Where is this all being experienced?
How does the sound relate to this that we call the "me"?
Much love
Alan
We're going to slow this right down and take it a step at a time. This requires radical honesty. You have said yourself that thought cannot be trusted. So do not look to ANY thought for an answer here and watch like a hawk that thought does not slide in unawares.
You say....
Sit with this and/or LOOK many times throughout the dayStillness is everywhere.
Does "everywhere" include you?
Is there a boundary between you and stillness?
Would you describe you as anything else other than stillness?
Can you find any "thing" in the stillness that you can pinpoint and say "that's me right there"
Beautiful ! Just let dropping into these sounds happen. Letting pure sound be truly and honestly felt opens up what is true.more drawn to the sounds of the body, allowed to be natural in its expression.
As you LISTEN AND FEEL into sound deeply is there any information at all in the sound in and of itself. or is there only the experiencing of that which we call sound?
If you do become aware of "information" about the sound does it actually arise from within the sound itself or is it actually the voice in the head, the narrator of thought having its say?
Is any thought about the sound part of the sound itself or even a pure reflection of the sound or just a mental abstraction about the sound?
What is the "raw" pure sound made of?
If someone demanded that you describe the experiencing of sound it is there anything that comes close?
What does the sound arise in? What "cradles" it?
Can any thought(s) actually truly and totally describe the experiencing of sound?
Is there some "thing" hearing sound?
Can you distinguish between the sound and the hearing - where does one start and the other begin?
Is hearing and sound just two different attempts to label / describe what is being experienced?
As you hear sounds in the body and you feel a sensation are these experienced in different "places"?
Where is this all being experienced?
How does the sound relate to this that we call the "me"?
Much love
Alan
-
JanineJanaki
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2023 2:31 pm
Re: In time and out of it.
Hello Alan.
Does "everywhere" include you?
…yes.
Is there a boundary between you and stillness?
No boundaries.
Would you describe you as anything else other than stillness?
?
Can you find any "thing" in the stillness that you can pinpoint and say "that's me right there"
No!
As you LISTEN AND FEEL into sound deeply is there any information at all in the sound in and of itself. or is there only the experiencing of that which we call sound?
No information in the sounds; mind adds commentary.
If you do become aware of "information" about the sound does it actually arise from within the sound itself or is it actually the voice in the head, the narrator of thought having its say?
The narrator provides information.
Is any thought about the sound part of the sound itself or even a pure reflection of the sound or just a mental abstraction about the sound?
Any thought is a departure from raw experience. Thinking about the water flowing from the fountain, preserving the sound as memory for later use, attempting to convey the experience in words, even artistically, IS NOT the experience of the sound of water flowing from the fountain. Experience is simple and direct.
What is the "raw" pure sound made of?
In trying to describe, there is movement farther from The Truth. Mind searches for “rights answers.” Reality is not broken by “right answers.”
If someone demanded that you describe the experiencing of sound it is there anything that comes close?
No!
What does the sound arise in? What "cradles" it?
Silence. Stillness.
Can any thought(s) actually truly and totally describe the experiencing of sound?
No way!!
Is there some "thing" hearing sound?
Crying. Contraction in the belly. Quick breath. Can’t find a “thing.” Not choosing to hear. Hearing occurring.
Can you distinguish between the sound and the hearing - where does one start and the other begin?
Seamless.
Is hearing and sound just two different attempts to label / describe what is being experienced?
Yes.
As you hear sounds in the body and you feel a sensation are these experienced in different "places"?
Space. Compelling belief. Hands cupped at mouth, elbows on the table, breathing. Warm exhalation. Soft breath sounds. Movement of belly. Glimpse of Here (space belief in background).
Where is this all being experienced?
Here.
How does the sound relate to this that we call the "me"?
Sound does not need “me.”
Peace.
Love,
Janine
Sit with this and/or LOOK many times throughout the dayStillness is everywhere.
Does "everywhere" include you?
…yes.
Is there a boundary between you and stillness?
No boundaries.
Would you describe you as anything else other than stillness?
?
Can you find any "thing" in the stillness that you can pinpoint and say "that's me right there"
No!
As you LISTEN AND FEEL into sound deeply is there any information at all in the sound in and of itself. or is there only the experiencing of that which we call sound?
No information in the sounds; mind adds commentary.
If you do become aware of "information" about the sound does it actually arise from within the sound itself or is it actually the voice in the head, the narrator of thought having its say?
The narrator provides information.
Is any thought about the sound part of the sound itself or even a pure reflection of the sound or just a mental abstraction about the sound?
Any thought is a departure from raw experience. Thinking about the water flowing from the fountain, preserving the sound as memory for later use, attempting to convey the experience in words, even artistically, IS NOT the experience of the sound of water flowing from the fountain. Experience is simple and direct.
What is the "raw" pure sound made of?
In trying to describe, there is movement farther from The Truth. Mind searches for “rights answers.” Reality is not broken by “right answers.”
If someone demanded that you describe the experiencing of sound it is there anything that comes close?
No!
What does the sound arise in? What "cradles" it?
Silence. Stillness.
Can any thought(s) actually truly and totally describe the experiencing of sound?
No way!!
Is there some "thing" hearing sound?
Crying. Contraction in the belly. Quick breath. Can’t find a “thing.” Not choosing to hear. Hearing occurring.
Can you distinguish between the sound and the hearing - where does one start and the other begin?
Seamless.
Is hearing and sound just two different attempts to label / describe what is being experienced?
Yes.
As you hear sounds in the body and you feel a sensation are these experienced in different "places"?
Space. Compelling belief. Hands cupped at mouth, elbows on the table, breathing. Warm exhalation. Soft breath sounds. Movement of belly. Glimpse of Here (space belief in background).
Where is this all being experienced?
Here.
How does the sound relate to this that we call the "me"?
Sound does not need “me.”
Peace.
Love,
Janine
Re: In time and out of it.
Hello Janine,
Such clear responses. Beautiful !
It's time, I sense, to check in with you Janine.
Remember this statement (or very similar) at the start of this investigation?
There is no such entity as a separate "me" never has been, never will be. It is a figment of the imagination.
You've checked in with these questions already since we started however here they are again.
What happens for you when you take this statement in, when you LOOK at what it is pointing at?
How does it feel?
Is there a difference for you now compared to when you first saw it?
Here are a couple of clips to take a look at.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJQcD588g2w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUDzrCLlrj4
What resonates?
What is experienced as you take in these messages?
Let me know it there is anything that comes up that we might explore further?
And finally for today, as a result of what we have explored so far WITHOUT GOING TO THOUGHT....
What is different to when we started?
What is now SEEN or FELT?
What has not changed?
And keep an eye out for a PM {Private Message) I have sent to you as well Janine.
With love
Alan
Such clear responses. Beautiful !
It's time, I sense, to check in with you Janine.
Remember this statement (or very similar) at the start of this investigation?
There is no such entity as a separate "me" never has been, never will be. It is a figment of the imagination.
You've checked in with these questions already since we started however here they are again.
What happens for you when you take this statement in, when you LOOK at what it is pointing at?
How does it feel?
Is there a difference for you now compared to when you first saw it?
Here are a couple of clips to take a look at.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJQcD588g2w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUDzrCLlrj4
What resonates?
What is experienced as you take in these messages?
Let me know it there is anything that comes up that we might explore further?
And finally for today, as a result of what we have explored so far WITHOUT GOING TO THOUGHT....
What is different to when we started?
What is now SEEN or FELT?
What has not changed?
And keep an eye out for a PM {Private Message) I have sent to you as well Janine.
With love
Alan
-
JanineJanaki
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2023 2:31 pm
Re: In time and out of it.
Hi Alan.
There is no such entity as a separate "me" never has been, never will be. It is a figment of the imagination.
You've checked in with these questions already since we started however here they are again.
What happens for you when you take this statement in, when you LOOK at what it is pointing at?
Sense of implosion. Torrents of thoughts; a tornado. Pause. Breathing. Rereading. Looking again. Tears and contraction. Heat. Spasms with breath.
How does it feel?
Devastating.
Is there a difference for you now compared to when you first saw it?
No.
“Had it/lost it” experience. The sense of falling being perceived as flying. The end of resistance/seeking.
What is experienced as you take in these messages?
Reassurance, like taking a deep breath, holding for an instant, and then letting everything go. Here, there are no questions. Relief.
Let me know it there is anything that comes up that we might explore further?
Wondering if a core belief in “specialness” has dropped.
Nothing. Everything still right Here.
What is now SEEN or FELT?
Colors, shapes, sound, sensations, labels.
What has not changed?
Stillness. Silence. Flow.
Thank you.
Peace.
Love,
Janine
There is no such entity as a separate "me" never has been, never will be. It is a figment of the imagination.
You've checked in with these questions already since we started however here they are again.
What happens for you when you take this statement in, when you LOOK at what it is pointing at?
Sense of implosion. Torrents of thoughts; a tornado. Pause. Breathing. Rereading. Looking again. Tears and contraction. Heat. Spasms with breath.
How does it feel?
Devastating.
Is there a difference for you now compared to when you first saw it?
No.
What resonates?Here are a couple of clips to take a look at.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJQcD588g2w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUDzrCLlrj4
“Had it/lost it” experience. The sense of falling being perceived as flying. The end of resistance/seeking.
What is experienced as you take in these messages?
Reassurance, like taking a deep breath, holding for an instant, and then letting everything go. Here, there are no questions. Relief.
Let me know it there is anything that comes up that we might explore further?
Wondering if a core belief in “specialness” has dropped.
What is different to when we started?And finally for today, as a result of what we have explored so far WITHOUT GOING TO THOUGHT....
Nothing. Everything still right Here.
What is now SEEN or FELT?
Colors, shapes, sound, sensations, labels.
What has not changed?
Stillness. Silence. Flow.
Thank you.
Peace.
Love,
Janine
Re: In time and out of it.
Hello dear Janine,
I feel the emotional reactions you describe. While this is so important I sense there are a couple of things in particular to pay attention to that may help.
And guess what obscures it?
Yes, Thought(s) Those "ghosts" masquerading as real.
Take a really good LOOK when the "lost it" feeling comes. LOOK for the story / thought/ memory/ comparison / belief that "obscures" what you truly are.
It may be so quick that it it feels really hard to spot.
Do your best to slow things right down. Should you do SPOT IT and FEEL INTO it, what sort of thought would you describe it as? This is not a trick question but an invitation to FEEL in as DEEPLY as you can to consciously experience what this "intruder" thought FEELS like?
And you also say...
As often as you can ..... let this stillness simply be acknowledged.
If you notice ANY thought intruding - even such a thought as "here is stillness" just let it float by.
This is the core of being which we can never deny but we typically take SO MUCH for granted UNTIL we realize it is the treasure of treasures. You don't have to do anything except STOP to experience it. Just let it show itself like fragrance wafts through the air. It so often is as subtle as that.
Whatever arises in experience or while feeling into any other sensations that arise simply ALWAYS do your best to acknowledge this Presence. It will do the rest.
Let me know what is experienced.
With love
Alan
I feel the emotional reactions you describe. While this is so important I sense there are a couple of things in particular to pay attention to that may help.
This is a fascinating phenomenon that seems to so often accompany realization so often. If you LOOK REALLY REALLY CLOSELY you will find it doesn't actually disappear as in "lost it" but rather becomes "obscured"“Had it/lost it”
And guess what obscures it?
Yes, Thought(s) Those "ghosts" masquerading as real.
Take a really good LOOK when the "lost it" feeling comes. LOOK for the story / thought/ memory/ comparison / belief that "obscures" what you truly are.
It may be so quick that it it feels really hard to spot.
Do your best to slow things right down. Should you do SPOT IT and FEEL INTO it, what sort of thought would you describe it as? This is not a trick question but an invitation to FEEL in as DEEPLY as you can to consciously experience what this "intruder" thought FEELS like?
And you also say...
You have often reported this . You know what you are. Just do your best to FEEL this no matter how subtle. It is not only your anchor, it is what you are.What has not changed?Stillness.
As often as you can ..... let this stillness simply be acknowledged.
If you notice ANY thought intruding - even such a thought as "here is stillness" just let it float by.
This is the core of being which we can never deny but we typically take SO MUCH for granted UNTIL we realize it is the treasure of treasures. You don't have to do anything except STOP to experience it. Just let it show itself like fragrance wafts through the air. It so often is as subtle as that.
Whatever arises in experience or while feeling into any other sensations that arise simply ALWAYS do your best to acknowledge this Presence. It will do the rest.
Let me know what is experienced.
With love
Alan
-
JanineJanaki
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2023 2:31 pm
Re: In time and out of it.
Hello Alan!
And guess what obscures it?
Mental static… the commentary committee.
Take a really good LOOK when the "lost it" feeling comes. LOOK for the story / thought/ memory/ comparison / belief that "obscures" what you truly are.
Interesting experience at the endodontist. Leaning into Stillness most of the time. Felt “high,” or in “The Twilight Zone.” Noticed when thoughts began to creep in, casting all manner of doubt and concern. Leaning in toward thought felt “serious,” “small,” and “contracted.” Leaning back toward Stillness felt incredibly Alive… amplified.
In thought “lost”; doubt reigns. Not true. Looking to Stillness, always There.
Do your best to slow things right down. Should you do SPOT IT and FEEL INTO it, what sort of thought would you describe it as? This is not a trick question but an invitation to FEEL in as DEEPLY as you can to consciously experience what this "intruder" thought FEELS like?
Life was quite Slow and Real this morning. Doubt and its accompanying whirlwind was Seen and disregarded. Calm reigned.
Amazing.
Thought about reporting this experience, and then asked, “Who feels to report? To get a ‘gold star?’”
Laughing softly, tenderly.
Thanks so much, Alan!
Peace.
Love,
Janine
This is a fascinating phenomenon that seems to so often accompany realization so often. If you LOOK REALLY REALLY CLOSELY you will find it doesn't actually disappear as in "lost it" but rather becomes "obscured"“Had it/lost it”
And guess what obscures it?
Mental static… the commentary committee.
Take a really good LOOK when the "lost it" feeling comes. LOOK for the story / thought/ memory/ comparison / belief that "obscures" what you truly are.
Interesting experience at the endodontist. Leaning into Stillness most of the time. Felt “high,” or in “The Twilight Zone.” Noticed when thoughts began to creep in, casting all manner of doubt and concern. Leaning in toward thought felt “serious,” “small,” and “contracted.” Leaning back toward Stillness felt incredibly Alive… amplified.
In thought “lost”; doubt reigns. Not true. Looking to Stillness, always There.
Do your best to slow things right down. Should you do SPOT IT and FEEL INTO it, what sort of thought would you describe it as? This is not a trick question but an invitation to FEEL in as DEEPLY as you can to consciously experience what this "intruder" thought FEELS like?
Life was quite Slow and Real this morning. Doubt and its accompanying whirlwind was Seen and disregarded. Calm reigned.
Amazing.
Thought about reporting this experience, and then asked, “Who feels to report? To get a ‘gold star?’”
Laughing softly, tenderly.
Thanks so much, Alan!
Peace.
Love,
Janine
Re: In time and out of it.
Hello dear Janine,
How many on YOUR committee?!?!
Yes - it is doubt. So clear !
And the emotion that you previously experienced when thought crowded in when pondering the statement there is no separate self seems to be the way doubt was expressing so viscerally. Doubt was not just a thought but DEEPLY FELT.
Does that ring true for you Janine or am I off beam here?
Here is the statement again for easy reference.
There is no such entity as a separate "me" never has been, never will be. It is a figment of the imagination.
As you read the statement again I am so curious about the qualities of that intense emotion now. Is there a difference?
What about the feeling of devastation you spoke previously of - is that still the same? Tell me how it compares now
Gentle moment by moment acknowledgement of what you truly are - CLEAR SEEING of this - is all that's needed.
Does thought have anything to say to that?
How does your heart respond - what is the FELT response to that?
With love
Alan
Love it !!the commentary committee
How many on YOUR committee?!?!
All these opportunities life gives to see the truth !! And the thought was that this was only about a root canal !! Opportunities are here every moment.Interesting experience at the endodontist.
That's a beautiful way to describe it. Leaning in. And that is actually what this is all about. SEEING what we are LEANING INTO. As we lean more and more into the "indescribable" - Stillness, Knowingness, whatever label we try to use to point to it - it no longer is just the background but more and more it is SEEN as that out of which all experience arises.Leaning in toward thought felt “serious,” “small,” and “contracted.” Leaning back toward Stillness felt incredibly Alive
So DOUBT is what you saw in response to "what sort of thought would you describe it as?"Doubt and its accompanying whirlwind was Seen and disregarded.
Yes - it is doubt. So clear !
And the emotion that you previously experienced when thought crowded in when pondering the statement there is no separate self seems to be the way doubt was expressing so viscerally. Doubt was not just a thought but DEEPLY FELT.
Does that ring true for you Janine or am I off beam here?
Here is the statement again for easy reference.
There is no such entity as a separate "me" never has been, never will be. It is a figment of the imagination.
As you read the statement again I am so curious about the qualities of that intense emotion now. Is there a difference?
What about the feeling of devastation you spoke previously of - is that still the same? Tell me how it compares now
Gentle moment by moment acknowledgement of what you truly are - CLEAR SEEING of this - is all that's needed.
Does thought have anything to say to that?
How does your heart respond - what is the FELT response to that?
With love
Alan
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