Unraveling

[davjak]

Notice which one you want to avoid the most in the moment (who/what inquiry or feeling), then focus on that for 10-15 minutes or whatever feels correct.

If there is any movement away from right now, there's a feeling that's trying to be avoided.

Let me know how that goes.

Will do, will do.

[davjak]

It's like I look back now and see I was walking through life with a massive, gaping wound. I tried to ignore it and pretend it wasn't there. I have this image of a huge chest wound and someone trying to go about life not paying attention to the fact he's wounded.

[davjak]

I have a lot of tears and tremoring now, and some of it is for others and the burden of pain they carry, with no relief. It all looks so different when the pain is visible and recognized. It feels shocking, what we carry in this human condition. What a weight of suffering this world carries. No wonder so much thrashing and tearing apart. How is it even held in check to the degree it is?

[davjak]

How strange. The central rot around which everything revolved, was that I committed a sin by being born, and no effort was ever going to fix that, except the seeing there was no sin and no one to have committed it.

[Bluejay]

How is it even held in check to the degree it is?

You're back at it again. This dramatization of it is all thinking. This isn't downplaying what happened, but thoughts will come in and make it grander, shocking, fill it with story and meaning, all while distracting from sitting with it and feeling. Over and over again returning to feeling it.

[davjak]

You're back at it again. This dramatization of it is all thinking. This isn't downplaying what happened, but thoughts will come in and make it grander, shocking, fill it with story and meaning, all while distracting from sitting with it and feeling. Over and over again returning to feeling it.

OK, I see. It feels better, as if having purged all that. But feeling better is not seeing through. I see this is not about completing the story or making it comprehensible and better feeling. It's about shedding the story altogether. The story is just more identity. It's time to leave it behind and venture out of this mind bubble.

[davjak]

One thing I can say is this is so not how I was expecting this to go. But I said I wanted everything exposed. What was I thinking that would look like? It looks like one giant mess. I can't believe there is so much ignorance being clung to.

What I get with the who am I question is that there is no answer to be found. Recognizing the question is just more thought reveals the questioner to be imaginary, and the question goes away. It leaves only direct experience and thought ...until the swing back into identification. Seeing this, I also recognize what accommodates it all. It's just so fleeting at this point, such a back and forth.

[Bluejay]

OK, I see. It feels better, as if having purged all that. But feeling better is not seeing through. I see this is not about completing the story or making it comprehensible and better feeling. It's about shedding the story altogether. The story is just more identity. It's time to leave it behind and venture out of this mind bubble.

If it feels good to write like that, you might try journaling, like Julia Cameron's morning pages, where you write without thinking.

What I get with the who am I question is that there is no answer to be found. Recognizing the question is just more thought reveals the questioner to be imaginary, and the question goes away. It leaves only direct experience and thought ...until the swing back into identification. Seeing this, I also recognize what accommodates it all. It's just so fleeting at thi

Yes, you keep doing it. That space where there is just direct experience. Stay there. When thought comes, keep looking where the I is. Is it the thought? the sensations the thought refers to?

This needs to sink in experientially. So you do it over and over. When boredom or frustration comes up, look for the I that is bored.

If there is frustration, there's an expectation of getting somewhere.

[davjak]

Yes, you keep doing it. That space where there is just direct experience. Stay there. When thought comes, keep looking where the I is. Is it the thought? the sensations the thought refers to?

This needs to sink in experientially. So you do it over and over. When boredom or frustration comes up, look for the I that is bored.

Yes, I see. Sitting in that space. Experience arises, and the tendency is to 'self' it, to move from being the direct experience, to taking whatever arises and engaging in identified following along. It comes in the form of wandering, drowsiness, etc. It's resistance to the unfamiliarity and discomfort of stillness, non-doing, an unwillingness to let go of the illusion. But as one sits with it more, that mechanism relaxes, and there is more space and less self.

[Bluejay]

Experience arises, and the tendency is to 'self' it, to move from being the direct experience, to taking whatever arises and engaging in identified following along. It comes in the form of wandering, drowsiness, etc. It's resistance to the unfamiliarity and discomfort of stillness, non-doing, an unwillingness to let go of the illusion. But as one sits with it more, that mechanism relaxes, and there is more space and less self.

Yes, you could say that.

Notice if there is someone or something moving from being the direct experience and not being it?

Look and let me know what you find.

[davjak]

Yes, you could say that.

I cut and pasted to move a sentence and put it in the wrong place. I meant to say the wandering and drowsiness is resistance.

Notice if there is someone or something moving from being the direct experience and not being it?

It's just attention moving reflexively away from what is unknown, uncomfortable, fear inducing, etc. It's just a conditioned habit of avoidance. It goes on all day long, not just on the meditation cushion. It looks like the basic movement away from DE, into the familiar feelings and thought patterns of a self.

[Bluejay]

It's just attention moving reflexively away from what is unknown, uncomfortable, fear inducing, etc. It's just a conditioned habit of avoidance. It goes on all day long, not just on the meditation cushion. It looks like the basic movement away from DE, into the familiar feelings and thought patterns of a self.

Note that you didn't really answer the question, which was: Is there an entity moving away and doing something?

Where is the border between attention and that which is noticed?

Does self have thought patterns? How do you know this? What is actually showing up?

[davjak]

Note that you didn't really answer the question, which was: Is there an entity moving away and doing something?

No, there is no entity. I had come to this understanding years ago, but it was just intellectual, which is why I'm here. I see reason can grasp the idea, but ideas don't impact identity.

Where is the border between attention and that which is noticed?

There is no border. There is no noticing outside attention. Experience and attention are one.

Does self have thought patterns? How do you know this? What is actually showing up?

Ah, yes, I see. How can what doesn't exist have a pattern? It's only thought commenting on thought.

Tonight I see a question that occurred before, but it wasn't reflected on deeply. Tonight it really hit home. Why does everything have to be such a struggle, so difficult and out of reach (as is obvious here)? There's a belief that what is most valuable and desired is improbable and so remote, maybe even impossible. If it's possible it has to be a convoluted, messy struggle, and the result will be some partial, unsatisfying result, or it will be found not to have even desirable to begin with, an identity of one who always gets the boobie prize.

The answer comes easy now. (I know this is the story, and I need to sit with the feeling. I just haven't had a chance yet.) When the mother is inscrutable and so out of reach, she, being critical to survival, will become the obsession. How do I figure her out and get what I need? What do I need to do or become to be worthy of love that is so remote and distant? What does it take to earn what is most needed

This too, was so funny when it was realized. The need to pay a high price for everything and wage a desperate struggle that always comes up short was just a belief, feelings and an identity! It too is funny and sad at the same time, but also a great relief.

I will sit and feel into it all asap.

[davjak]

Also, I didn't miss the journaling suggestion. I have use a journal for many years, although I haven't heard of the woman you mentioned, but I will check her out. Thanks for the suggestion!

[davjak]

Also, I didn't miss the journaling suggestion. I have use a journal for many years, although I haven't heard of the woman you mentioned, but I will check her out. Thanks for the suggestion!