RaamS

[indianguy]

Dear Jon,

It's been a couple of pretty busy and exhausting days.

I would please like to take another day or two to try this and respond.

Apologies and thanks, Jon.

Love and regards,
Raam

[JonathanR]

Hi Raam


Thats fine. Of course. Take your time.

Jon

[indianguy]

Dear Jon,

Extremely sorry for the delay. Family errands have needed me to shuttle between cities, and although I have given some time to your suggestion in the last post I don't feel like enough justice has been done yet.

Hoping to give you a proper reply by tomorrow.

Love,
Raam

[JonathanR]

Hello Raam,

I do understand. Take what time is needed to try it without pressure or rushing in any sense

.best wishes

Jon

[indianguy]

Dear Jon,

Thank you so much for being so patient with me. I did not like delaying this at all. I did have time to carry out the exercise in between these past few days, but not adequate energy. I had taken on a little too much upon myself at work, home and a little volunteering that I do, and each of these demanded a significant amount of my time and energy (even some sleep) at around the same time, and I just couldn't sit down for this activity that I do for myself, these past few days. The little private time that I did have was mostly in a state of inadequate sleep, which didn't seem like the best state to do this in, and so, I had to take time to both do the exercise and to respond to you. So, really, thank you so much for waiting, Jon, and I'm really sorry for keeping you waiting, as well.

The occasional questioning of "What if this is what no self is like?" hasn't exactly had results per se (I've not been able to dwell on it for a satisfactorily long enough period of time, only moments), but I am still interested in asking this and just living a day or perhaps a few moments with this question. After all, that's what this is already supposed to be, right? A life that already doesn't have a self, so the question feels extremely direct, and enticing. I will tell you if anything comes up with this investigation at any point.

No need to assume that whatever it is that notices this is based in the head.

Thanks for saying this explicitly, Jon. I have noticed that it has been a habit of mine to hold onto some "spot" in the head or chest region based on where I feel the "I" sensation is, whenever I remember to do so, while going about my day. I've been trying to just "let what is, be as it is" rather than deliberate an "I" experience, which sounds silly when I say it now.

You saying this explicitly although in this particular context is a reassurance that I should just let go of this holding onto some physical location for where it feels like I am.

I guess I'll remember this better not just for this exercise but in general too.

As for looking for any gap between the last thought and the next , you could try this refinement:

Sit comfortably in a relaxed position but not going to sleep. Don't make any particular effort at all. Just leave things as they are. Eyes open a little or closed. You are not trying to meditate.

Without labouring to do so notice any sensations such as breathing , tingling , warmth. It may seem that relaxation is starting to take place and perhaps a feeling of peace or satisfaction. Don't grasp or reject.
It may be that silence is noticed or an impression of space. It may be that a feeling of clarity comes . If so just rest there without effort. Don't worry a jot if these don't happen.

I've tried it a few times now, Jon, minimizing expectations. There's definitely the impression of space, but I'm not sure if I can associate words like satisfaction or clarity to it, Jon. What is noticed is something that's always at the background during at least my waking state, yes.

I guess along with that, there's some impatience that I'm taking a little seriously and not simply observing as thought.

No need to assume that whatever it is that notices this is based in the head. It could be interesting to see if there is any beginning or end to sensations that may appear.

The thing about noticing the beginning of sensations was cool. Every time a sensation, particularly an itch or tingling somewhere on the skin was noticed, it was as if it had already been there in the background, and attention was merely being attracted to it, when it was noticed. Even a scratch didn't exactly seem to get rid of the sensation itself, it merely drew attention to the feeling (or rather, mild pain) caused by the scratch, thereby pushing the itch to the background from the perspective of attention. I'm not yet able to say much about the end of sensation yet.

I'd like to take longer to do this even more patiently but wanted to first break this silence of not having replied to you for so long, Jon.

I'm extremely sorry for this delay.

At some point thoughts are likely to appear. Just let them. The moment they are seen they tend to liberate themselves. No need to get stuck on thought stories but likewise no need to reject them. Let them float by . Just seeing them is fine.

I've been a bit impatient with some thoughts, I'll go again and try to be a bit more patient this time.

Much love and regards,
Raam

[JonathanR]

Hi Raam

So sorry. I missed that you had posted.

I will read it those ending and respond.

Love

Jon

[indianguy]

Dear Jon,

Hope you are doing well.

Please don't apologise. I'm the one who should be apologizing profusely for not having posted for so long. Please take all the time you need. After all the delay from me, I don't deserve a quick reply anyway :)

Love,
Raam

[JonathanR]

Hi Raam

Good to hear from you.

. I'm extremely sorry for this delay.

Oh god, Raam. Stop apologising. It's fine. I said so. Sometimes we need time and you clearly needed it and still do because you have been so busy.

I like the way you are approaching the suggested exercise. Play with it. Have fun.

I did word it quite carefully so perhaps read my words once or twice.

I like what you said about space and the presence which is always in the background. Rest there without judging and if thoughts come just notice them and let them through.

Love

Jon

[indianguy]

Hey Jon,

Oh god, Raam. Stop apologising. It's fine. I said so. Sometimes we need time and you clearly needed it and still do because you have been so busy.

Thanks a lot, Jon. :D

I like the way you are approaching the suggested exercise. Play with it. Have fun.

Right, Jon. I'll continue doing that, this time perhap being a little more relaxed than impatient, and will tell you what it's like.

I did word it quite carefully so perhaps read my words once or twice.

Certainly. I'll go back to it before any iteration of the exercise that I do when relatively free.

I like what you said about space and the presence which is always in the background. Rest there without judging and if thoughts come just notice them and let them through.

Alright Jon, will do.

Will try these out and respond soon.

Thanks!

Love,
Raam

[JonathanR]

Hello Raam

How is it going?

[indianguy]

Dear Jon,

I've been giving some time to the exercise after re-reading your post, but still doing it in a preoccupied state, and I don't have a wholeheartedly satisfying enough answer to give, hence refrained from posting.

I'm travelling back from my parents' house (Chennai) to my place (Bangalore) right now. Hopefully I'll be able to focus better and do it satisfactorily enough to be able to respond better, Jon.

Sorry to continue to keep you waiting.

Love,
Raam

[indianguy]

Tried it yet again now, Jon, but I seem to be falling asleep repeatedly.

I'll reply after a proper attempt tomorrow, please.

Raam

[JonathanR]

Hello Raam

Falling asleep repeatedly can mess this up. If that is happening it's best not to keep 'trying'.

Tiredness and busyness can conspire to prevent this from happening naturally. It is necessary to rest properly and to be wide awake. A few minutes of physical exercise first can sometimes break through the sleepiness.

Jon

[JonathanR]

Raam

I should also add that what I suggested us just one exercise. A great one , but it isn't fundamental to self-inquiry, so please don't imagine that if it doesn't work out there's something wrong with you.

Love

Jon

[indianguy]

Dear Jon,

Tiredness and busyness can conspire to prevent this from happening naturally. It is necessary to rest properly and to be wide awake.

I tried it now after catching up on a few hours of sleep. Not having had adequate sleep for the past few days was certainly part of me feeling sleepy yesterday.

Without labouring to do so notice any sensations such as breathing , tingling , warmth. It may seem that relaxation is starting to take place and perhaps a feeling of peace or satisfaction. Don't grasp or reject.
It may be that silence is noticed or an impression of space. It may be that a feeling of clarity comes . If so just rest there without effort.

Came near the familiar feeling of ordinary now-ness but these days it's often accompanied by a little doubt as to whether I'm imagining something here or not.

Just adding this for completeness: This used to be significantly easier in the past, Jon. I used to end up in a state of thoughtlessness that felt like sleep. I used to not consider it sleep because the slightest disturbance would bring back awareness, but during the state of thoughtlessness, I don't think I used to be aware enough. It used to just be empty. I then started feeling that lack of awareness made this a bit of a waste of time.

Now, however, there's just doubt and a dismissive impatience, Jon. Having had a few hours of sleep and even exercised a little before sitting down, there was no falling asleep this time.

By paying attention to the sensations, attention quickly came to the present, and finding the quietness didn't take much time. I guess there's not much I'm able to say about it, hence the impatience. I'm not holding onto the expectation of "finding something" or for this exercise to take me anywhere, but am just realizing that I'm not able to find much to say anything about it here, Jon.

I should also add that what I suggested us just one exercise. A great one , but it isn't fundamental to self-inquiry, so please don't imagine that if it doesn't work out there's something wrong with you.

Thanks, Jon. I've generally not been great at meditation. I know you insisted in your earlier post that this isn't about trying to meditate, but even in the past I've found it hard to make a habit out of it. I don't know if it is indeed working for me or not.

I do want to try it out once again tomorrow, and will tell you if I feel any different.

I must add that was able to be significantly more relaxed when trying the exercise today than I've been in the past few days, and it was way easier to try it. Perhaps I'll be even more relaxed tomorrow.

Love,
Raam