Clearing doubts and Resistance and directing seeing

[Elad]

Finally, the Buddha relented: “I will teach you the Dhamma, Bahiya. Listen carefully to my words. Train your self in this manner: In what is seen, there is only the seen. In what is heard, there is only the heard. In what is sensed, there is only the sensed. In what is cognized, only the cognized.

This is how you should train yourself. When for you there is in what is seen only the seen, in what is heard only the heard, in what is sensed only the sensed and in what is cognized only the cognized, then Bahiya there is no you in connection with what is seen, heard, sensed or cognized, there is no you there. When there is no you there, you are neither here nor there nor anywhere in-between. This and only this is the end of stress and unhappiness.”

Upon hearing the words of the Buddha Bahiya’s mind cleared.

(From the Bahiya sutra)

[Elad]

Seeing Exercise - Part I

The usual belief that 'I am this body' is usually tied in with the belief that the body as a separate item is responsible or 'DOING' the senses - 'I see', 'I hear', 'I feel' etc
We will begin with 'seeing' - Just that one sense on its own.
Close your eyes.
With eyes closed, you will now experience 'blackness'. There may be other things you can find going on, sure. If you are looking at a bright light, there may be a red glow. There may be sparkly bits or cloudy flecks appearing and disappearing - It really doesn't matter about the specifics.
Just to make things simple, whatever you can see with eyes closed, I'm going to refer to it as 'black' or 'blackness' just for simplicity.

1) With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'blackness' as I mentioned?
2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'blackness'?
3) Can what is witnessing the blackness be found?
4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a person be found that is witnessing the blackness? Or is there just 'blackness' to be found?
What do you find?

Can an INHERENT SEE-ER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the see-er, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

[Elad]

Please do this seeing exercise also.

[Villosa]

Can a thought be directly experienced?
A thought can only be directly experienced

Direct experience could not truly ever not be there. Though certain thoughts have a weight and intensity giving the impression that direct experience is not there or is suppressed. Here experience becomes contracted as opposed to spacious. Direct experience is still there but only in a basic limited way

I can confirm that blackness as described is experienced.
There is nothing else in seeing other than the blackness ( unless there are thought images but this is thinking not seeing)
what is seeing the blackness cannot be found other than the imaging of it in thought
A pair of eyes an I/me, a person cannot be found when attention is paced on the blackness. On looking for an I or me when the attention goes to the mind, images and thoughts arise to suggest an I or me. These are fleeting and indistinct. When placing the attention on the seeing there is no seer

[Elad]

Dear Ben, so sorry!!! For some reason didn't get notifications that you answered. Now I went to write and check up on why I am not hearing from you, and then saw your answer... Please if you don't hear from me in the future for a couple of days, feel free to send a whatsapp and check. Much clarity in your answers. Let's continue. Please look in direct experience, not analytic thought and answer:

1) Can you predict/control thoughts?

2) Can you control/move attention?

3) Can you control sensations, sounds, images, etc?

4) Can you control/choose movement?

[Elad]

When you answer this please send me a Whatsapp notification. Just in case it's not working where for some reason.

[Villosa]

movements happen spontaneously. There are sometimes thoughts about what is going to be done but then the body moves to do those things by itself.

I can't control sensations but i do react to them. I cannot control sounds and images even those appearing in my mind.

Can I predict /control thoughts ? can I control and move attention ? I'm still working on this will look more tonight and in the morning

[Elad]

"movements happen spontaneously. There are sometimes thoughts about what is going to be done but then the body moves to do those things by itself." Right and the thoughts, are they spontaneous too? So the whole chain of events is...

"I can't control sensations but i do react to them. I cannot control sounds and images even those appearing in my mind."

Can you find an I that reacts to them in direct experience? Or just shifting experience including belief about I?

"Can I predict /control thoughts ? can I control and move attention ? I'm still working on this will look more tonight and in the morning"

Take your time. The key is that the answer only comes from SEEING in real time. Any thinking about it will just leave you in the conceptual realm where these things can and will be discussed and doubted as long as there are philosophers and other speculators around.

[Villosa]

Hi Elad,

I'm still at. I feel like I am banging my head against a wall. There are different types of thought. Some are fleeting and not grabbed. Others, the more salience they are afforded, have a quality, a density and intensity. They feel like I am in the thoughts and making the thoughts. Most thoughts I have ever had are like this it. has been like this for decades. I'm spending as much time on this as I can. When I get into a meditative state I can let go of thoughts at times they are less sticky. Is there an advantage to doing this in a relaxed mediation, do you think ? or is it better to be doing it in a everyday sate of mind ?

I know I'm not answering the questions. I have no positive answers yet. Thought I'd let you know I'm still here.

[Elad]

Good you check in. This will feel like banging the head against a wall until it doesn't. Work with as much consistence and no-drama kindness as possible and embrace kindly all feelings. Focus in what is constructive to practice now, not on "failures" and evaluations.

Also, I think it might help to drop these elaborate/complex explanations of how it has been with you and different types of thought (and to think about it), for now, you getting hijacked by your philosopically inclined very relying on itself analytic mind (which is a habit and a defense mechanism without self). You can always return to and enjoy this disposition after.

Leave those exercises that you didnt finish with for now. Maybe we will return later to it.

Work instead with the following practice, which you can do whenever. In fact, I recommend you do it during the day when selfing pops up (by itself without choice):



We have direct experience, which is seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting, smelling + thought.

When there is a sense of self, separate it into the senses that are involved, and inquire into each sense.

For example, let's say I feel a sense of self behind the eyes, and there's a thought 'this is me'. I would inquire:

Sense of self behind the eyes = sensation = are these sensations the self?

Thought 'this is me' = thought = is this thought the self?

Image of self behind the eyes = thought = is this image the self?

Objections will likely rise up. If so, keep inquiring into those, such as 'Of course there is a self, I'm right here'.

Thought 'Of course there is a self, I'm right here' = thought = is that thought the self?

Then maybe there's a feeling, a contraction in the chest, so you inquire into that. Are those sensations the self? Where is it?

If you end up in a quiet place, rest there.

Write to me after 1-2 days what you experience.

[Elad]

Good you check in. This will feel like banging the head against a wall until it doesn't. Work with as much consistence and no-drama kindness as possible and embrace kindly all feelings. Focus in what is constructive to practice now, not on "failures" and evaluations.

Also, I think it might help to drop these elaborate/complex explanations of how it has been with you and different types of thought (and to think about it), for now, you getting hijacked by your philosopically inclined very relying on itself analytic mind (which is a habit and a defense mechanism without self). You can always return to and enjoy this disposition after.

Leave those exercises that you didnt finish with for now. Maybe we will return later to it.

Work instead with the following practice, which you can do whenever. In fact, I recommend you do it during the day when selfing pops up (by itself without choice):



We have direct experience, which is seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting, smelling + thought.

When there is a sense of self, separate it into the senses that are involved, and inquire into each sense.

For example, let's say I feel a sense of self behind the eyes, and there's a thought 'this is me'. I would inquire:

Sense of self behind the eyes = sensation = are these sensations the self?

Thought 'this is me' = thought = is this thought the self?

Image of self behind the eyes = thought = is this image the self?

Objections will likely rise up. If so, keep inquiring into those, such as 'Of course there is a self, I'm right here'.

Thought 'Of course there is a self, I'm right here' = thought = is that thought the self?

Then maybe there's a feeling, a contraction in the chest, so you inquire into that. Are those sensations the self? Where is it?

If you end up in a quiet place, rest there.

Write to me after 1-2 days what you experience.

Hi Ben. Nice to see you at Vince's group yesterday. How did you find it? What else are you engaging these days? I guide you best when I have a finger on the pulse of how you practice/inquire, and how you feel with what with our cooperation.

Here is a text I wrote to another client today, and I thought it might be helpful for you too:

"Okay good. For the purposes of our investigation it will be very helpful if you attend only to direct experience in the here and now, and what you discover is true. Not to "how it often feels". How it often feels are old habits of being lost in thought and they might be slow to change. What we aim for here is that it becomes 100% clear what is true when you look with full attention at what is here/now. Metaphorically speaking it is like if believing in self is being an alcoholic. Our aim here is not to help you remove all craving for alcohol or make sure you will not relapse and drink again. Our aim is more modest: that it becomes clear for you beyond doubt that the separate self/doer/controller is an illusion and always has been, just like an alcoholic who realizes beyond doubt that alcohol is never the true and healthy way for him, that it is always the way to avoid reality instead of love it and be in it. This metaphor is not perfect, but I hope it conveys this important point about our modest and yet highly impactful aim.

Are you willing to let this be what our work is about? I.e. not how it "often feels/seems" but what you see to be true when you pay full attention here/now? And are you willing to accept that this seeing wont necessarily feel special or wonderful, it might feel not so special and disapointing. Are you willing to let this be not about special and not about permanence or even "most of the time", but all about what is actually seen to be absolutely true in direct looking here/now?"

Kindly
Elad

[Villosa]

Hi Elad,
I was aiming to write today. I haven't written because I couldn't report much direct experience. I agree to only report on direct experience.

It was really useful going through that exercise with Vince and Alan. I saw more clearly the link between thought and feeling and how they are linked. This afternoon I was able to see this during meditation. the play between thought of self and feeling of self. it is very subtle. My enquiry has become kinder, softer in a way. It seems better this way.

Generally I wake up early and lie in bed enquiring for couple of hours get and get a drink and meditate for an hour later I might have a short session after breakfast at 2pm and then another session in the evening for an hour. At times during the day i turn my attention to enquiry. I have been listening to Terry Stephens quite a bit the last few week especially when my mind feels dull. I also listen to Todds youtube out put. Today I listened to some James Low (dzogchen ) which I used to a lot I find it good for preparing the mind. Though I found it less useful today. I think that work is done, though I was inspired to use dynamic concentration 'Phet' in my meditation to clear the mind. Do you think that is a good idea ? Todd does an unfetering meet up on Thursday I might go to. Some times I listen to Angelo Di lulu. I am drawn to listen to less now. I used to do it kind of compulsively but it seems to have run its course and the enquiry seems to be more habitual.

Sometimes when I meditate I start with some shamata. but not so much recently. If I have a lot of thoughts going on or feeling sin the body I place my attention on the body sensations.

To give you idea of what I do and what influences me.

[Elad]

Hi Ben,

This is good, lovely with the softness, Vince and Alan are good guides. I suggest we simplify a bit. Keep attending Vince group and also Todd's. Let go until after gate of other teachers and videos. To keep it focused. Okay?

Now. You have direct experience to report every day. It might be as simple as saying: "doubt is here without self choosing it and it is not a self". "Dissapointment is here without self choosing it and it is not a self". "Anger and fear and care is here without self choosing it and it is not a self"

Get it? Can you report like this every day?

And play with this pointer for at least one day: feel your heart area and ask "what does love want?". Experience the reactions that come without a separate chooser. Journal about it once in a while as you attend to the heart. Let me know what is experienced.

[Villosa]

Thanks Elad, Ok, reducing teachers to Vince & Todd and co.

Sensations in the body are here without a self choosing them, they are not self. concern arising without self choosing it letting it go without self choosing to, it is not self. Tiredness and dullness in the the body without self choosing it. (there is some selfing claiming the tiredness )



I've tried the heart exercise but I'm not getting a response, yet.

[Elad]

Thanks Elad, Ok, reducing teachers to Vince & Todd and co.

Sensations in the body are here without a self choosing them, they are not self. concern arising without self choosing it letting it go without self choosing to, it is not self. Tiredness and dullness in the the body without self choosing it. (there is some selfing claiming the tiredness )



I've tried the heart exercise but I'm not getting a response, yet.

"there is some selfing claiming the tiredness" - without a self choosing it. Just keep seeing how whatever is/emerges in the moment is like that. Including doubt.

"I've tried the heart exercise but I'm not getting a response, yet." - Untrue. You didn't "try it", you did it. Then you had some response including the thought "there is no response" or such. That is it. Do it more like that.

Do you want to let go of judgmentality and preconcieved knowing, against yourself, or others, or method - and just let things reveal themselves?