I’m not sure

[Aussie]

Dear Cheryl

Glad you had a safe trip!

is there an owner of the 'body',

This is where i find it tricky because yes it doe’s definitely feel like there’s a owner of the body and this is what i regard as myself the body.

is there a center to which sensations are happening?
Is there a center to which experiences are happening?

No there’s no centre because sensation and experience are felt all throughout inside and out of the body.

Can the "body" do things?
Can a label do things?

Here’s the strange part, the body can do things by itself or it can be made to do things from a order. Example is if you have a itch, automatically the body wants to scratch it but you can choose not to scratch it if you don’t want to. Same as body breaths by itself but you can alter the breathing to deep or shallow if you choose to. So what is doing the choosing if they’re is no self? This is where I’m stuck at the moment.

Kind regards Aussie

[CherylVT]

Dear Aussie,

it doe’s definitely feel like there’s a owner of the body

Yes, it can feel like there's an owner of the body, but use Direct Experience to question that assumption.
You've located the feeling of self--somewhere behind the top half of the forehead, slightly to the left.
Is that where the controller lives?
Where is the controller?
What is the controller? A thought? A series of thoughts? Or...???
Be specific.

Can you control the aging process of "your" body?
Can you control illness when it happens to "your" body?
Can you control the dying process of "your" body?
Just exactly what do "you" control?

Love,
Cheryl

[Aussie]

Dear Cheryl

behind the top half of the forehead, slightly to the left.
Is that where the controller lives?

Yes That’s where the thought of the controller lives.

What is the controller? A thought? A series of thoughts? Or...???

Yes the controller is a constant stream of thoughts that commentates on what it sees, hears, feels its kinda of like a analysing machine. Sometimes it has a rest and is calm other times it’s like a tornado. It can be a very useful tool or your worst enemy.

Can you control the aging process of "your" body?

No you can’t you can only choose good life choices excercise\diet to help with the aging process.

Can you control illness when it happens to "your" body?

No you can’t you can only choose to take medicine to reduce severity of illness.

Can you control the dying process of "your" body?

No you can’t control the the dying process.

Just exactly what do "you" control?

You control choice.

The controller feels like another word(label) for the self. This is all confusing stuff just as I thought i was making progress.

Kind regards Aussie

[CherylVT]

Dear Aussie,

Let’s have a look at the idea of control, choice and decisions. Please explore the two exercises below and report your findings.

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.
2. Put two objects that you like in front of you (e.g. a cup of coffee and a glass of juice), then pick up one or the other, while paying attention to the whole process of choosing.
Watch like a hawk. Don't go to thoughts, examine the actual experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire…
How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
Can a ‘controller’ or and entity that is choosing be located?
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over.

If there is ‘here’ or ‘there’, there must be a refence point, right? Without center, “I” there is no reference point, hence no location. ‘Location’ (left, right, up, down, etc.) is a label, ‘here’ and ‘there’ are labels for various things (hearing, seeing, sensing).

So, is there a choice or just cause and effect playing out?

Love,
Cheryl

[Aussie]

Dear Cheryl

How is the movement controlled?

The movement is controlled by the muscle, bone and nerves in the arm, wrist and hand

Does a thought control it?

No a thought only talks to that part of the body to perform the movement

Can a ‘controller’ or and entity that is choosing be located?

Yes feels like in the forehead slightly to the left

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

The decision to either turn the hand over or not to turn the hand over is decided in the forehead but i do not know ‘how’ this decision is made!

So, is there a choice or just cause and effect playing out?

I believe there is choice in everything we do otherwise everyone would be running around like headless chooks.:) But how that choice is ultimately made is a unknown to me.

Kind regards Aussie

[Aussie]

Dear Cheryl I can’t believe how much you guys put into helping others! Even if I don’t see the truth I can rest easy knowing that there is still some good decent Buetiful people around xo

[Aussie]

Dear Cheryl

I hope everything is ok? I haven’t heard from you for a few days I believe you just got back from your travels so I guess you’ve been quiet busy. Quick update I’ve been practicing alot of direct experience and that is working well I’ve also stumbled across Angelo dilullo on YouTube he’s a very interesting person, anyway just touching base hoping you’ll still guide me or if you’re to busy could I please have another guide.

Love Aussie

[CherylVT]

Dear Aussie,

Thanks for checking in and giving me a nudge! I flew home on Sunday and collapsed from over-travel on Monday.

Angelo Dilullo is very good. You may also want to listen to Pernille Damore--confining yourself to Fetter 1 for now. Here at LU, we are sticking tight to Direct Experience. I'm glad you are make DE part of your daily life.

The movement is controlled by the muscle, bone and nerves in the arm, wrist and hand

Although we know this as a scientific fact, for our purposes, we are confining ourselves to DE. DE doesn't know much about muscle, bone, and nerves. DE says simply, (something like): thought, sensation, thought, sensation.

Can a ‘controller’ or and entity that is choosing be located?
Yes feels like in the forehead slightly to the left

But where and what is the controller?
I daresay your Direct Experience is something like:
looking for controller = thought
feeling tension in forehead = sensation
that must be the controller = thought
Meanwhile, the hand turns over, which might be something like thought, sensation, thought, thought.

i do not know ‘how’ this decision is made!

Exactly! Keep looking. How does this decision get made?
Correlation (tension in forehead) is not causation--as any doctor will tell you. Superstition is simply the correlation of two events that occur close together. But do black cats and walking under ladders "cause" anything to happen?

I believe there is choice in everything we do otherwise everyone would be running around like headless chooks.:)

Beliefs do not count in DE. We are using the crowbar of DE to dislodge our beliefs.
Maybe we ARE all running around like headless chooks. That might be one of the reasons you are here. Are you tired of running around like a headless chook?

Love,
Cheryl

[Aussie]

Dear Cheryl

It’s good to hear from you again.

where and what is the controller?

Well I don’t think there actually is a controller it’s just thought upon thought upon thought trying to keep the seeking going, sometimes I’ve noticed how sneaky thoughts can be at times all though i cannot see this cleary often.

How does this decision get made?

The decision gets made by yet again another thought (ego) this can be very hard to see though because of how identified i actually am with thought.

For the time being I’ll stick with DE so I don’t confuse my mind anymore than I have to

Kind regards Aussie

[CherylVT]

Dear Aussie,

Well I don’t think there actually is a controller it’s just thought upon thought upon thought

In other words, "I don't think there is a controller." "I do think there is a controller."
Can such fickle thoughts be trusted?


Thinking lays this trap for you (and for all of us). Therefore, stick tight to Direct Experience. Undoing this decades-old thought-belief of "I have a controller" is going to take a lot of deconditioning and reconditioning the mind. Return to your Direct Experience over and over.

Let’s explore choice, control and decision-making again.
Can you take me through a biggish decision that you made recently - not something very personal so you share more details about it.
How did it come to be?
Consider all the conditions that were necessary for it to happen. If any one of those conditions were different, would the outcome have been the same?
How many of these conditions were outside of your influence?
What was in your control (according to thought)?

Please give me some details about your decision making.
Love,
Cheryl

[Aussie]

Dear Cheryl

Can such fickle thoughts be trusted?

Can any thought be truly trusted

How did it come to be?
Consider all the conditions that were necessary for it to happen. If any one of those conditions were different, would the outcome have been the same?
How many of these conditions were outside of your influence?
What was in your control (according to thought)?

All comes down to suffering, I’ve grown up with social anxiety most of my life. Missed out on alot of opportunities because I’ve never had the confidence to have a go, but to get back to the question I’m wanting to see for myself if enlightenment is true or not! Sorry to cut you short but I’ll answer the rest of the questions by this time tomorrow. Because I’m stuck at work and need to concentrate!

Kind regards as always aussie

[CherylVT]

see you tomorrow then

cheryl

[Aussie]

Dear Cheryl

Can you take me through a biggish decision that you made recently - not something very personal so you share more details about it.
How did it come to be?
Consider all the conditions that were necessary for it to happen. If any one of those conditions were different, would the outcome have been the same?
How many of these conditions were outside of your influence?
What was in your control (according to thought)?

I’ll do my best here but a big decision i made earlier this year was a career change from a job I was passionate about (commercial fishing).

How did it come to be?

It came from a financial point of view to support my young family.

Consider all the conditions that were necessary for it to happen. If any one of those conditions were different, would the outcome have been the same?

I wouldn’t of left the industry if the cost of living didn’t go so high and the price we we’re getting for the fish went so low.

How many of these conditions were outside of your influence?

All the conditions were outside of my influence

What was in your control (according to thought)?

Thought wise the control was to seek a better paying career.

Kind regards Aussie

[CherylVT]

Dear Aussie,

There is a long list of events that has taken you to your new job. You see there is no decision at all – it’s all one thing leading to another, leading to another, and finally thought appears to announce that a decision has been made. But now let’s examine this even further:

Do cause and effect exist without thought?
How are ‘cause’ and ‘effect’ experienced directly?

What is time without memory (thought content)?
Can you directly experience ‘past’ or ‘future’? Can you directly experience ‘1 min ago’ or ‘1s ago’?

Love,
Cheryl

[Aussie]

Dear Cheryl

Do cause and effect exist without thought?

I think cause and effect can exist with and without thought.

How are ‘cause’ and ‘effect’ experienced directly?

Through the senses of thought, sight, sound, smell, taste and sensation.

What is time without memory (thought content)?

Time doesn’t exist without thought it’s just present pure moment (now)

Can you directly experience ‘past’ or ‘future’? Can you directly experience ‘1 min ago’ or ‘1s ago’?

No you can only experience past as a memory or future as a thought but this isn’t exactly a correct experience of the current moment.

Kind regards Aussie