The Gate

ive been struggling with this, and was replying to let you know that, when i read your signature. thats it. i think it feels like a loss where i know its not a loss. Also, heading to work shortly. thank you henri

OK :)

Let me know how it goes and if you have any questions.

Now, can you say with 100% certainty that there is no inherent self anywhere to be found?

Yes, I can. I dont really understand what the confusion was because none of the arguments made sense but for some reason I couldnt quite accept it.

Yesterday, while on a walk in direct experience, I realised that they were just thoughts bubbling into the general happening and when I asked myself - to whom are these thoughts arising, it came to me that they were arising to no one. I had a really good sensation and smiled a lot. I think, Im good now.

That's great to hear :)

So let's do some general questions to see if there's something somewhere to be explored.

Is there a thinker of thoughts?

Is there a witnesser of experience?

What is a body? Can the body do anything?

Is there doubt about what has been seen?

Any fears about regressing?

Anything else that comes to mind?

And here are two videos you might find interesting:

1. https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

2. https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4

So let's do some general questions to see if there's something somewhere to be explored.

Is there a thinker of thoughts?

No, the thoughts are just arising or forming.  there is no i, thinking the thoughts

Is there a witnesser of experience?

no, the witnessing, is in the experience

What is a body? Can the body do anything?

a vibration, a collection of atoms, arranged in a form i recognise as ... something i dont know i have if i cant see it, part of the ego thought system, a meat suit, a communication device.  not me.    The body can learn to do things, like getting dressed and just does stuff, like breathing.  
Is there doubt about what has been seen?  No doubt

Any fears about regressing?

  Recognition of the need to keep practicing

Anything else that comes to mind?

Bit fuzzy on the body

Recognition of the need to keep practicing

Can you say more about this? A fearful recognition, or just seeing that unfolding keeps going?

Bit fuzzy on the body

Here's an unfindable inquiry on the body: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbCAdhtMODE

And if you feel like it, here's the inquiry on 'other people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWEjAZUGG5A

Once you've explored at least the first video, here's a pointer to explore:

Body Exercise

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes. Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is? Does the body have a weight or volume? In direct experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing? Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly? If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ actually refer to? What is the direct experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question.

Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, eating, etc) before replying.

Enjoy :)

Hi Henri :-)

Am heading out to a family party, I aim to reply tomorrow could get to Tues.

OK! Thanks for letting me know :)

Can it be known how tall the body is? Does the body have a weight or volume? In direct experience does the body have a shape or a form?

No, these things are not known

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing? Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

No there is only sensation where the clothes lie on the skin and the body meets the chair

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly? If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

there isnt an inside or an outside.  

What does the word/label ‘body’ actually refer to? 

A shape that is labeled.   This shape and this character seem to show up a lot together.  I am not the character nor am i the shape. identification with the body creates seperation

What is the direct experience of the body?

The direct experience of the body is sensation.

What did you think of the videos? Any findings there?

A shape that is labeled. This shape and this character seem to show up a lot together. I am not the character nor am i the shape. identification with the body creates seperation

If you are neither, what are you?

Can you say more about this? A fearful recognition, or just seeing that unfolding keeps going?

in the sense that once it is seen, it cant be unseen,  and that unfolding and deepening will keep going.

If you are neither, what are you?

the awareness of the experience?

The direct experience of the body is sensation.

i realise i interpreted the question incorrectly and totally identified with the body lol. There is no direct experience of the body

in the sense that once it is seen, it cant be unseen, and that unfolding and deepening will keep going.

This sounds like you've created an arbitrary inflection point, but where did all this start? Has deepening not happened before inquiry?

Did this inquiry begin when you joined the LU forum? Can you find a clear starting point for this journey you are seemingly on?

How is it known that the unfolding will be 'worse' than not unfolding? It could be better for all we know, right?

the awareness of the experience?

Let's look in direct experience. What is awareness?

Or what are the building blocks of awareness? Sensation, image, sound, thought/words?

in the sense that once it is seen, it cant be unseen, and that unfolding and deepening will keep going.This sounds like you've created an arbitrary inflection point, but where did all this start? Has deepening not happened before inquiry?

Did this inquiry begin when you joined the LU forum? Can you find a clear starting point for this journey you are seemingly on?

i cannot find a clear starting point.  i can find a particular event/s that prompted me to feel/think theres gotta be another way, however all the events prior to that, were steps in the journey.
initially, i would have referred to personal work as personal growth.  it is more recently i have realised that there are what i have referred to as deeper truths to be uncovered, like the ones i am learning here being here.  whilst i might have read about them, until recently i have not really experienced them.  it feels like theres a depth of understanding/knowing/realising.

How is it known that the unfolding will be 'worse' than not unfolding? It could be better for all we know, right?

i like the unfolding.  im feeling softer.

If you are neither, what are you?

no im not the awareness of the experience.  Im not any of the sensations etc in the experience.  Am i the whole experience?  or is it that there is just the experience?... there s just the experience, there is no i who is aware of it.

no im not the awareness of the experience. Im not any of the sensations etc in the experience. Am i the whole experience? or is it that there is just the experience?... there s just the experience, there is no i who is aware of it.

Yes, this seems to be the case. The knowing is a part of what arises.

Let's explore this:

Stream Exercise

Imagine for a moment a scene, one of a little mountain stream which is tumbling down a hillside gully, not far from its source. It has been raining and so the level is quite high.

Consider in your mind's eye, if you can, how it flows to the right over a little rock (where, had the level been lower, it would probably have gone around the rock), then the flow goes to the left over a tree bow, and then slows a little in a broader place, before splashing over a small cascade into a pool, and so on down the mountain side.

Does it choose any of its directions? Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground and so on?

Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or more the product of weather conditions and water, like an ever-changing pattern?

1. Can you find anywhere where 'Deborah' autonomously intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?

2. Now please consider a regular decision made eg; what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens. There are environmental factors, there are color preferences (but where did those come from - any autonomous intervention there perhaps?), practical issues (such as what is available), available time for preparation, purpose (eg; need to fill up for the day, or to look cool for a certain person) etc.

Where in there is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life?

Can you find someone somewhere?

3. Can anything be found for which 'Deborah'' is responsible – if so responsible to what and for what?

Enjoy :)

1. Can you find anywhere where 'Deborah' autonomously intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?

No.  when i review some past actions and think i wish, with the benefit of hindsight,  i had done something different, i realise that if i were to be put back there with the same knowledge, feelings etc that i had then, i would not do anything differently and i have seen how i can plan and that plans dont happen or happen differently.  what is happening is the flow and deborah has no control over it.

2. Now please consider a regular decision made eg; what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens. There are environmental factors, there are color preferences (but where did those come from - any autonomous intervention there perhaps?), practical issues (such as what is available), available time for preparation, purpose (eg; need to fill up for the day, or to look cool for a certain person) etc.

so yesterday, the family party.  i was working in the morning and had an hour to get to where i needed to be including a 20 minute walk.  so the day before, i checked the weather and planned an outfit.  i wanted to look niuce without going over the top.  it came to getting ready. i didnt like the outfit when it was on, so i chose a different dress and decided against that.  i put something on, that was totally different based on, it didnt need ironing and i felt comfortable and a bit funky.
a lot of clothing decisions are based on memory and story.  im not sure aout the colour preferences, maybe association? and likewise with food, whats there and what there is'time' for.  i see this is all flow.

Where in there is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life?

there is only the flow.  decisions are made - like what am i going to wear - i will wear X, that may or may not follow through. either way, this is all flow and not dependent on deborah

the deborah who is a collection of stories and memories  who makes the decision thinks she is someone who has the power to intervene, though i see that the collection of stories and memories is not deborah.  there isnt anyone.  

3. Can anything be found for which 'Deborah'' is responsible – if so responsible to what and for what?

deborahs only responsibility is to learn and be open to the unfolding.