Free Mango

[Bluejay]

Thanks for your help. You've been an amazing guide!

Thank you. I've enjoyed our conversation :)

Questions coming in next post....

[Bluejay]

Here are the final questions.

Answer from your own experience, and let me know if you have any questions.

Enjoy!

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

[FreeAlfie]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No, there is not one nor was there ever one even when there was a sense of self most of the time.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

As far as I can tell, the sense of self starts with thought(s) and is felt, imagined, narrated (more thought) projected via I, me, mine thoughts. It seems to be fed by beliefs that might or might not be conscious. The familiarity of the narrations and the repetition is at times entrancing to a stronger sense of self. It foretells events and retells events via thoughts that are repetitive and dense. In direct experience, this happens often after experiences there is a gap it seems. It judges "self" and others to solidify itself. It uses all manner of defenses to protect itself - as if it's real.

In direct experience in the senses sight, sound, feeling, hearing there is no need for a sense of self to experience any of that. Although the sense of self can claim all of those things as "its own." Maligning its mechanism actually seems to strengthen it. Simply noticing and returning to the senses seems to be more easeful.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels good to see this. It's a bit lighter here. Life seems less serious and also more engaging to the senses. There is more art, listening, looking and resting. There is also wondering best ways to deepen and sustain this seeing as it seems without this LU process that the S0S could refuel itself.

Before I began this dialogue I was doing a lot of what some would call shadow work. It was really looking at personality patterns so as to disidentify with them. The result was that I was thinking non-stop and it felt like it was never ending. I think the sense of self actually fed off of that.

Now I focus more on seeing through the sense of self as primary and it seems that the personality patterns are much less. There can still be reactivity but it's no longer seen as a problem to judge myself over. Actually I find the reactivity is less. My sleep is improving. I'm actually not that interested in having spiritual growth conversations like I used to be. Those seem to lead to comparison and lots of doing. It's a separate self playground for me that has lost it's appeal. Perhaps that might change.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

I'm not sure if this question is about the beginning of the LU process or most recently, so I'll answer both. In the beginning of the LU process, the looking came about because I was suggested to try this. I was reluctant but obedient. Once it began, I found it really helpful and practical. I have bounced between spiritual systems and had looked into the existence of the self previously. I was cautious because I was concerned that it can be a way that some people (I've done it) spiritual bypass. So that was my thinking. But once it got going I found it was actually enriching, and also, it cuts through some of the tendency to think that I need to process everything. That is a very convenient belief for a sense of separate self. Also, I've had the tendency to dwell in thought and thinking I need it to know what to do, when to do it and how to do it the right way. But this 'seeing' shows me each day that actions arise and don't require tons of thoughts and knowings about how to do things right way. That is a belief that I have had that was challenged here. It's much less of a sticky beleif now.

I think what really made me look at this was that what I've been doing was spinning in the mind and getting increasingly more anxious, critical and judgmental. My sense was that I was moving away from my own intuition and insights in the act of "trying" to wake up. Who is trying to make that happen?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

I'm going to answer this without going back through the text in order to get the right answers. It seems best to know what's really been seen versus perform adequately.

Decisions are made and then a thought might claim it made them. It's hard to say how they are made since there is not an independent self controlling or orchestrating them. Thoughts might go back and forth but often lately "I" find myself doing something that I had intended to do but not when I thought I would do it. For example writing this out. I came into my office. Thought I might draw art then began answering these questions. There was not the usual internal back and forth of I want to do it/I Don't want to do it; I Should do it/I can't do it etc. There was just movement to begin it. This happens much more lately. There is still action but without the internal push/pull narrative. And so many less judgmental thoughts. Just action or not.

As for free will. On the absolute level there is none as there is no one to control or have a will. On the relative level its seems there is intention and responsibility for actions taken. In direct experience when i really investigate it I don't see a free will. Things flow in a certain way and only thoughts say "I did" it.

[quote]6) Anything to add?[/quote]

First, thank you so much for your patient guidance and elegant seeing. I felt your presence and wisdom in this exchange.

I am interested in how to sustain this and not regress into the separate self mindset again. I am open to ideas about how to deepen and go further in the Awakening process. I am not feeling done but I am also not negating what's been seen here.

[Bluejay]

Thank you for the answers, Alf!

I'll now share these with other guides to see if they have any feedback.

When all is done, I can share some resources for further deepening.

[Bluejay]

There were no questions from other guides, just a comment and some guidance.

The comment was on your answer below:

I am interested in how to sustain this and not regress into the separate self mindset again.

Keep looking in direct experience on this. Who has the control to sustain this or not to sustain this? This plays out by itself. Take your hands off the imaginary wheel ;-)

You can also use the tools you already have for emotional processing. Look at the fear before the thought. The fear of not sustaining this.

Another tool is Byron Katie's The Work.

Now to the resources:

To continue deepening this, I recommend you keep looking, and there are some great groups for this, such as https://perfectlyokay.org/ - email Patti for access. You'll need to go through a free mini course, but other than that there are no requirements. There's a great group on there called 10 fetters. They have plenty of recordings of their meetings that I recommend you look through as well. If you have trouble finding any of it, you can email Patti, or even me.

Then there's the 10 fetters group on Facebook. It is invite only. I can send you an invite if you're interested.

On doubt, here's a great video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTyUspd7c3c

And here's an interview on someone who encountered doubt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trB0Fi6dpg0

And finally, a website I highly recommend: https://www.simplytheseen.com/

I'll also send you a private message here on the forum with my email if you want to get in touch or stay in touch.

Other than that, we are done here. You will be contacted by the admin within a few days to wrap things up here and an invite to the Unleashed FB group.

[FreeAlfie]

Yes, I would like an invite to the Ten Fetters group. Does the Perfectly Okay group open to non-Finders graduates?

Thanks for all of the resources. They're being followed up on bit by bit. Also, I will email you soon.

Again, many thanks!

[Bluejay]

Perfectly Okay group is open to non-finders. Just email Patti (link on the homepage).

I'll give you an invite link in the reply when you email me :)