The Gate

Here is the guides response to your question for more clarity Rose.

The questions are in the context of describing how, in your Actual Experience, decisions happen

Is there someone who makes the decisions?


With which of the five senses is a decision experienced?


Who do the thoughts come to?



With love


Alan

Hello Alan,

Thank you for the questions. I found them challenging. I would like to know this more deeply.

Is there someone who makes the decisions?

In AE there is no one here," inside or out" who makes any decisions. Looking within, when decisions are considered, there isn’t any “Rose” to weigh the options, there is emptiness. What looks like a decision gets made somehow, but no “me” makes it.

With which of the five senses is a decision experienced?

I’m not sure. If there is a noticing/awareness that a decision has been made (maybe this is a thought based on what is happening), this can sense almost a type of settling sensation, maybe relaxing at times. Can be very subtle and light. A felt direction. With AE, there doesn’t seem to be a “me” feeling this, more of a shift in awareness.

Who do the thoughts come to?

The word “decision” is used, but it’s more like something is happening and it looks like a decision was made. There might be a thought about what is actually happening or not happening. There might be a noticing of thoughts of what this means to this life. What notices the thoughts? Just conscious awareness? In AE, when I’ve noticed “decisions” were made that” I” did not prefer, there has been less pushing against them. There is more space, lightness and a sense of body relaxation even though there is awareness this may not be “my” choice. The “my” choice is in the background, like a soft reminder of "me". And if I really look, she is not there.
Thank you for the further clarity.
Love, Rose

Hello Rose,

I would like to know this more deeply.

So here is what the same guide has suggested to look deeper.

"decisions are considered" -

What is AE of this? Is there thoughts which can think and that can consider decisions or are there just empty thoughts?

"A felt direction" -

Is there anything separate from "Тhis here" that can move in "Тhis here"?

"awareness" -

Aren't awareness and aware the same thing?


Here is Bhiya sutta, the story is that Buddha give this to the man with the name Bahia.

Check and write what is coming about the awareness after reading this:

"Then, Bāhiya, you should train yourself thus:

In reference to the seen, there will be only the seen.

In reference to the heard, only the heard.

In reference to the sensed, only the sensed.

In reference to the cognized, only the cognized.

That is how you should train yourself.

When for you there will be only the seen in reference to the seen, only the heard in reference to the heard, only the sensed in reference to the sensed, only the cognized in reference to the cognized, then, Bāhiya, there is no you in connection with that. When there is no you in connection with that, there is no you there.

When there is no you there, you are neither here nor yonder nor between the two."


With love


Alan

Hello Alan,

What is AE of this? Is there thoughts which can think and that can consider decisions or are there just empty thoughts?

Thoughts don’t think. They just appear as images and ideas. Thoughts are empty, so when I say “when decisions are considered”, this is an illusion of thoughts. Like it’s as if there were thoughts somewhere floating saying “this must be considered”. But thoughts can’t consider anything. Nothing real is “taken somewhere” and considered as in a “decision”.

Is there anything separate from "Тhis here" that can move in "Тhis here"?

What is this” felt direction” I wrote about? It implies movement, from here to there. Like a moving somewhere.
As I sense into it now, it is like a settling or shift, it could be more of a landing deeper within. Is this moving in the here? Reminds me of grounding deeper.
No there isn’t separated “here” moving to “here”, if I look in AE.

Aren't awareness and aware the same thing?

Yes they are.

Check and write what is coming about the awareness after reading this:

As I read this, I sense that there is only awareness, and there is hesitation to say “of the seen” because that implies a separation? As this is read, there is no me here as the seen is seen, heard is heard. The me disappears in a way in a very quick moment,( but not completely gone). In that quick moment there is no “me” aware of a seen, but just the seen there. As I look behind the “me” that is looking and hearing , there is emptiness, nothingness seeing and hearing. This is as I look, but it is not consistent. As I look, all there is, is an aware seen, heard, sensed etc.

Thank you for this further looking.
Love, Rose

Thank you for this further looking.

You are so welcome Rose. Deep looking is what this is all about. Having questions from another guide is very useful to helping our looking.

I owe it to you to give you the guides response to your answers. Haven’t heard from him as yet with time zone differences and the like. But will let you know as soon as I hear.

In the meantime I do have just one question from this paragraph …..

the me disappears in a way in a very quick moment,( but not completely gone). In that quick moment there is no “me” aware of a seen, but just the seen there. As I look behind the “me” that is looking and hearing , there is emptiness, nothingness seeing and hearing. This is as I look, but it is not consistent. As I look, all there is, is an aware seen, heard, sensed etc.

I have a feeling that I know what you mean but not to assume anything could you talk, in particular, to your comments “In that quick moment there is no “me”” and “but it is not consistent.”

As I say I will be back to you with the response from the other guide when I hear

With love


Alan

Hello Alan,

I have a feeling that I know what you mean but not to assume anything could you talk, in particular, to your comments “In that quick moment there is no “me”” and “but it is not consistent.”

What became more prominent visually (as I read and considered that text) was like a flower became more stark against the background and it seemed at that moment, no me was looking. But it was so fast I almost didn’t notice it. My cup “stood out” very briefly and I “went away” like, disappeared. The “not consistent” part is that this felt inspired by reading the text, but this “perception” is not happening throughout the day. Occasionally, this will be glimpsed on it’s own, but is very fleeting. Does this seem clearer to you Alan?
Love, Rose

Yes, Rose it is clearer.

As we’ve covered earlier in our conversations the sense of self can still be there after we’ve seen there is no “me.” Seeing there is no “me” - as you have affirmed a number of times now - is what opens the door to true liberation.

This, from Gateless Gatecrashers, addresses this well.

"The fiction of ‘I’ is indeed part of every thought. And it will always be. This is not about purging identity—that’s impossible, and ties people in horrible knots. It’s the classic trap for all seekers, to expunge identity. It’s impossible, identity just reforms around that effort. All this is, is seeing the truth that NO identity can EVER refer to anything real, because there actually is no you. Do you understand? Stop trying to purge identity. Instead, see that there is nothing behind it."

Just the other day I got caught in a “thought storm” and then in one moment realized what was happening. Just the realization of what was happening, in and of itself, dismantled the whole thing without anything else needing to be done !!

Effortless liberation!

With love


Alan

Rose,

I’ve got confirmation from the guides that there are no more questions so we can wrap up our conversations here.

Your user name Roselight will turn blue. Please watch the private messages notification area in the top right hand of the header area of each LU page on your thread. There will be a message sent from admin and also one from me.

It has been a joy to walk with you in this exploration. Thank you for your willingness to be so honest and hanging in there when it all seemed foggy.

Let curiosity take the place of the seeking that was, as the mystery of life unfolds.

With Love

Alan

Dear Alan,
I just want to respond to you (and the guides that assisted), how appreciative I am for the time and care you all spent on my behalf. I can feel the commitment and love behind the support and assistance.

Alan, you have been such a wonderful guide, so encouraging, patient and thoughtful. Yes, there were times (and still will be...) of such frustration and fear that I would be banished to the side for not seeing. And you'd be right there the next time with more questions and encouragement. Truly a blessing.

I look forward to the next steps.

Love and much gratitude, Rose