Awakening

[Anastacia42]

Yes. you're welcome!

Are you ready to answer "final" questions?

If so, here they are. Keep it simple, but thorough. Once these are clear, they'll be shared with other guides, who may have questions.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Loving,

~ Stacy

[Patrickbere]

Hi Stacy,
I hope to post answers to these tonight. It's very early Saturday morning here. Friday was a long drive. Periodically I was trying to find the place where my butt meets the seat. The boundary becomes blurred very quickly and each time it seems like I can sort of extend my feeling into the seat I seem to laugh quite spontaneously. A few other subtle experiences which include: an increased degree of openness to others, feelings of peace about the future and less thoughts about the future, a lack of active decision making but somehow decisions still get made.

Apologies for the little delay in responding to final questions. Last night I performed at a venue 4 hours drive from home and this morning I will be driving back. Thank you again Stacy.
Love
Patrick

[Anastacia42]

Your quite welcome.

What sort of performance?

I'll watch for your replies.

Much love
Stacy

[Patrickbere]

Guitar/singing. 🙂

[Patrickbere]

Hi Stacy,
I just need another day or two as I've not addressed the final questions yet. Sorry for the delay. All ok here, long drive back today. Did no deliberate or focused practice/exercises but had moments of seeing. Some (not all) aspects of identity that were lingering have given way (for now?).
Love
Patrick

[Anastacia42]

That's fine. Started to say maybe the weekend isn't as busy, but that isn't usually the case for a musician.

I'd be curious to hear a recording if you have any.

Much love,
Stacy

[Patrickbere]

Re: Final questions

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

no there is no separate self. it is something I created out of thought. no there was never any lasting or fundamental separate self. it was just the content of thoughts.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

self is created by mistake. self is like 'apple' a concept that seems convenient but in the case of self ends up creating a whole lot of trouble. it's a powerful idea because it seems to accord with our experience but when really looked for it cannot be found. Self is created as I 'scrunch up' my thoughts and attempt to direct traffic from a false, made up, created, imaginary position. It makes life a misery imo.

when it starts? I would say as a child we are taught to label and categorise things. In that way it makes sense to label and categorise ourselves as separate to everything else.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

ah, now this is difficult. I am still 'selfing' for quite a bit of time each day. I wander in thoughts that seem like habitual patterns. The only real difference is that I find it harder to get all worked up about the things I am thinking about whilst 'selfing'. (That's in the last few days anyway). Also, there are some habitual thoughts that my mind just shrugs at and those thoughts can't be thought or followed up (with other typical thoughts) because somehow it just seems pointless to do that as it doesn't make sense anymore. When that happens I feel an amazing sense of freedom, I want to laugh. Many thoughts have lost their power. But I am still trapped to a certain extent in habitual thought patterns that rely on a strong sense of self. I do not think I have entirely given up that sense of self yet, I do feel different, I laugh and cry for no apparent reason, tears of relief. I sing more for no reason, I dance around a bit more. I don't 'decide' things as much, I roll along more than I did. Everything used to be managed, filtered, manipulated and controlled to make it 'better' but I am not really doing that anywhere near as much. I'm not sure if I'm doing it at all - probably I am, some of it is hard to be detailed and specific and accurate about because things feel very different and as I roll along and think less about certain things, they are also remembered less. Emotions feel less 'sticky' to use a word that seems to be part of the jargon.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

There were a few really powerful exercises that Stacy gave me to do which all seemed to have an impact. I recall one day doing the 'apple' exercise (but with a leaf) whilst sitting on a bench, resting during a walk. I was in a lot of pain that day. I ran over what I could see, touch etc re the leaf and I could see that there was no leaf, leaf was just a concept. I could see that each leaf on the bush, like each apple, is unique, different to each other. They can't all be 'leaf', (I know this is thought but it did seem to help). I could 'see' that there was no leaf in direct experience. it was just an idea, a made up concept, a story. Then I suddenly saw that my suffering was a very similar thing. I have bodily sensations, yes, but I habitually turn those into suffering via combining them with thoughts that tell an ARBITRARY made up story about me, my life etc. The content of thoughts cannot be directly seen. You have to go into thought and stop seeing, in order to check on the content of thoughts. This all seemed very powerful to me and my 'suffering' immediately decreased significantly as I could see that I was sort of creating it in my thoughts.

The work I did with the turning my hand over and over and watching to see if there was a choice made or an entity making the choice was also powerful for me. I would laugh or cry (and still do) almost every time I did that exercise. It would also reduce my suffering significantly when I did it.

The finding the place where your bottom meets the chair was powerful too. I can fairly quickly slip into feeling as though there is just a sensation and maybe I can sort of feel the chair or.....I don't know, I'm still working with some of these and I would say I'm still questioning or doubting some of what I'm experiencing. The doubt doesn't feel like a problem or over thinking it, but perhaps it is. I'm not agonising over it but just wanting to see as clearly as possible. Suffice to say primary experience, direct awareness, is a powerful tool for disentangling some aspects of identity around body but I'm only just starting out on that road.

The fourth experience I would mention is that after the 'my suffering is a made up story like apple' day I felt good for about 10 days. Then I fell into a hole of suffering for two days. I was walking on the beach and I sort of said to myself/heard an inner voice say 'you've suffered enough' and I felt I was able to let go of a big knot of 'selfing' in that moment and over the next hour my suffering fell right away and as yet has not come back. I'm sure it will as I've a long way to go, but perhaps I will be less invested in the thought patterns that create it next time.

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Decision seems like a very light thing for me now. Rightly or wrongly I don't feel as though my decisions amount to much. I still experience 'making decisions' but this happens less than it did because life seems to be more spontaneous. But even when I am making decisions it seems as though I accept that things will unfold as they unfold. It feels like a burden has been lifted from me in a sense, I don't carry the weight of those decisions.

I intend to go for dinner with a friend later this week. But I don't think about that decision, it just seems a light thing to me, part of life unfolding.

I see that with no self there can be no decision maker but I do still experience a sense, an illusion of decision making as I still have preferences to act upon etc.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

I still have intention despite the fact that when I look there is no entity to have intention. I intend to go to work again after a period of sick leave. That seems real but I would say there is more lightness about it now. As though, perhaps that is what is best or perhaps not, either way it will unfold as it unfolds and I needn't agonise over this too much. For me intention is still a part of my daily experience but I don't think about it as much anymore. Actually as I type this I start to doubt whether the 'big intentions' truly do exist for me anymore. I don't think they do. For instance I would not say "I intend to be good to people" is true anymore. I think it is now more like "the goodness will flow through me if I let it". There is no self to have intention but the illusion of self is powerful and I still have intention but it feels lighter now.
Somewhat confusing.....

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

This is an interesting one. the hand turning over thing really made me see that free will is an illusion. The self which I thought had free will does not exist. There is no free will coming from me.
But (and yes this is a thought) it has also occurred to me that if I am an expression of the universe then if free will exists then perhaps I, as part of the universe, am in a sense acting freely. That said it is clear to me that the 'self' which I used to believe chose freely, does not do so. The self is an illusion and it's free will is also an illusion. We are just little lights of awareness watching bits of some great pattern unfold. Life just unfolds.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Very similar to my answer for free will. Choice is an illusion. We observe something happening and we quickly insert a self in there in our imaginations, choosing it to happen. we have the feeling that we choose but we do not actually choose. I can see there is an inconsistency here or a paradox when taken together with my answer to free will question. That could be because I am seeing incompletely and still gripped by old habits of thought (which I think is likely true) or it could be that there actually is a paradox here. All of these things, choice, decisions, intention are causally redundant. We may have an experience of a self and of a self choosing but that experience is made up and inserted retrospectively as life just unfolds. The non existent self does not cause anything to happen.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

I have spent my adult life trying to control things. It was an agony. It didn't start out being an agony. It just ended up there. We have no control and our efforts to control situations in our life are therefore extremely painful. Control as an experience is an illusion we create and insert into our experience of life. A fabrication to explain how things happen. We don't know and can't know how they happen.

That said, self control, the ability to not act on biological urges, for example, relies on a healthy developed brain. So from that sense I like to believe I have a form of self control. Perhaps this is not quite what is meant by control....

What makes things happen? How does it work?

I do not know. Life is unfolding, we are an expression of the oneness, we are able to observe parts of what is happening. Perhaps we see parts of a pattern but we do not see the whole pattern. I feel a sense of awe as I type this. How are these words being typed? There are mechanistic answers to this and other questions - well the brain sends a message to the hands etc..... But these mechanistic answers do not touch or describe or encapsulate the mystery of what truly makes things happen or how it works.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience

.

I cannot answer this. I still feel a bit trapped by my selfing here. I know I'm not responsible for anything really but I'm still clinging to the illusion of responsibility, at least to some extent. To be honest I cling more to a sense of responsibility for my 'bad' deeds than I do my 'good' deeds. But that said, I know I am not responsible for either. Confusing.

6) Anything to add?

I am not claiming to have awakened. Most awakening stories that I have read about seem to be dramatic and sudden shifts. What has happened to me was quite gradual and I would describe it as 'glitchy'. The tv screen playing the story of my life started to glitch, I could kind of see the usual picture for a few minutes and then a whole different version of the same show would play for a few minutes and then a jumble of both mixed up together would play for a bit. It happened in stages as Stacy would lay a new set of questions/exercises on me. It has been dramatic in a quiet sort of way..... I feel the tears of relief coming as I type this, thinking of the quite painful suffering I have been experiencing over the past few years, worsening over the past year, worsening over the past months, worsening over the few weeks before the shift (or if not worsening then a growing sense that the suffering was a wrongness in itself). Then right in the midst of an habitual powerful negative response to a life event, my suffering just fell away as I SAW that it relied on a story and that the story was the content of thoughts, which are arbitrary, cannot be SEEN directly and are just made up spin. Then a period of time of feeling good emotionally and mentally but also feeling like I had no stability, as though I needed to digest what I had been through, as though my brain was just not wired for this new state. Then 'wham' back into quite bad suffering, some work on the 'story' that was underlying this suffering, 'wham' back out of the suffering fairly quickly. All the while I would have a day of feeling like brain tumblers were settling into a new groove, then a day of just static or neutral feeling instability, then a day of more tumblers settling into a new groove. Boy oh boy it has been confusing and emotionally powerful.

That said, I am profoundly grateful for whatever has happened, grateful to the LU community for the work they do FOR FREE and grateful particularly to Stacy for her help. The many methods I have explored previously have been useful to varying degrees. Self enquiry has not been particularly useful for me, meditation has been useful, cultivating compassion has helped, but the "insight" method (if that is accurate) that LU uses was by far the most compelling and useful method for me of the things I've tried.

I know I'm still getting a bit lost in 'selfing' and the associated thought and I feel as though I am only part way through even this first little chapter - that is to say things don't quite feel stable yet. But I do feel as though something profound has changed for me. Thank you.

Love

patrick

[Anastacia42]

Good morning, Patrick,

Beautiful & honest.

Expectations are what is tying you in knots. You seem to expect to SEE and not ever "self" again. That rarely ever happens. Seeing evolves over time, maybe even years. I do not see 24/7, but knowing what I've seen. what is true, never goes away.

It's lather, rinse repeat.

I suggest you attend our various video groups & participate in aftercare discussions as you integrate. We'll point you to those shortly.

I'm going to share your answers with other guides, who may have questions. Also, watch for a Private Message from an admin later.

Loving,
Stacy

[Anastacia42]

Hi Patrick,

No questions, so far. We do think you would benefit from these video conference groups to help you overcome your doubts.

Zoom meetups

"Online meetings w Luchana & Lubo |
each Thursday, 5 pm GMTJoin Zoom Meeting
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/86803570848…
Meeting ID: 868 0357 0848
Passcode: 592898

Meet up with Vince (For LU seekers & guides)
Monday August 14
5am Sydney (est) Australia
Every 2 weeks
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/86991485768...
Meeting ID: 869 9148 5768
Passcode: 083035

Once you are in the Facebook group you will see announcements for these.

Much love,
Stacy

[Patrickbere]

Hi Stacy,

Expectations are what is tying you in knots. You seem to expect to SEE and not ever "self" again. That rarely ever happens. Seeing evolves over time, maybe even years. I do not see 24/7, but knowing what I've seen. what is true, never goes away.

You are right it is my own expectations that are confusing me. This information about it evolving gradually, as the more typical way it happens, is really useful for me. Also I can see you are right there the truth never goes away. That resonates with what I've experienced so far. Thank you very much.

I will check out those zoom meetings.
Love
Patrick

[Anastacia42]

Did I share these with you?

Watch this, please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4

Much love ,
Stacy

[Patrickbere]

They are both really helpful for where I am at. I will watch them again. Thanks Stacy.
Love
Patrick

[Anastacia42]

Hi Patrick,

You've crossed the Gateless Gate. Please continue to integrate & use the resources provided.

I'm StacyAnnClark in Colorado on Facebook.

Let me know if you need anything.

Much love,

Stacy

[Patrickbere]

Hi Stacy,
Your guidance has changed my life profoundly. I am very grateful. I don't quite have the words to articulate the change I've experienced. Maybe it's best to just say I've found a new way to live and it is so much more peaceful and I'm experiencing so much less suffering. Thank you so much Stacy.
Love
Patrick

[Anastacia42]

My pleasure, Patrick.

I'm working for world peace - one mind at a time.

Pass it on!

Loving,
Stacy