Rio's corner

[rio]

Addendum to my previous post -
I wonder as thoughts further qualify themselves into an underlying layer of thought, does exploring these feelings lead to uncovering all the layers of thought and all the way to the 1st event that caused it.

thanks,
Rio

[forgetmenot]

Hello Rio,

The meaning given to thoughts, colour, sound, sensation, smell and taste is illusory, because all meaning is thought content, and all thought content is fiction.

Thanks for that clarification. That helped big time. I always wondered as to where these beliefs are.
It's like every word in a thought further resolves into more thoughts. It happens so fast. This means that and that means this. Since most thoughts have 'I'/'me' in them, there are all stained in the end by the wrong assumptions about me being a separate limited self. It's like everything is perceived through this lens.

Yes…meaning happens so very fast. That is why it is good to become an observer of your thoughts….of all thoughts and learn to pay particular attention to meaning. This sounds simple enough, however there are softer, quieter thoughts that go unnoticed, for want of a better way of putting it. It takes time to become aware of all thoughts. It takes becoming quiet to become aware of all thoughts. Have you watched where two people are talking and one is always talking over the top of the other. That happens with our thoughts too. There are those loud thoughts which we can't miss...but there are also subtle thoughts that arise and we miss them completely because we of the loud thoughts.

All sensations have a ‘feeling tone’ to them. So you can start by becoming aware of what the ‘feeling tones’ are. How? When next triggered and a sensation arises…just ask yourself with your focus been on the sensation, “what does this sensation say about me” and then wait for the answers to arise.

I was experiencing a certain unique feeling tone today. Thought labelled it annoyance. Sitting with it and doing the exercise revealed that it was a combination of a few things.
Frustration and anger had built up throughout the day slowly as I didn't hear back all day from someone I was expecting to hear.

Nice job! Becoming aware of, and being in the body is another important practice to have. We are so busy being in the head that we don’t notice what is going on in the body. It’s a good practice to STOP & DROP into the body several times throughout your day to see what is going on. Learning to live in the body instead of the mind is, can be said, is the goal....it is what embodiment is about. The body will tell you when there is something going on ie feeling discomfort and unease in the body. These are clues and cues to have a look at what is going on for you. This way you become aware of what is going on, investigate it, and feel it totally without having to try and fight it off, either consciously or subconsciously throughout your day. It is when we are unaware of what is going on in the body that we react and project.

Also there was anger about someone else bugging me instead. Also accompanied by the usual frustration of still not getting enlightened or not have put in enough effort.

We have to allow ourselves to feel these emotions and not suppress them. That doesn’t mean we take our anger out on someone else or ourselves. It means we become aware of the anger, aware of the story that is attached to the anger in that moment and process it. We can express anger at the other person on paper in order to get the story up and out, and in so doing also perhaps become aware of thought/belief/conditioning which is the trigger. We can even express our anger with the other person if that can be done without hurling abuse and accusations in a way that is all about blame, shame and causing hurt.

How do I discern if that is accurate or just more labels/stories that thought made up?

Thought isn’t making up anything. Thought isn’t an individual entity that is sitting somewhere ready to hijack you and fill you with stories in order to fool you! Whatever labels, thoughts, images and stories arise when you explore emotions/feelings, then they are what are attached to those emotion/stories. You will also find that when you tell yourself the story that is appearing, that it feeds the feelings/sensations in the body. If there were no reactions to the thought/stories then you wouldn't have had any discomfort ie feeling tone in the body!

When you investigated the anger, you discerned that it was about someone bugging you and your unenlightened story. So I am going to say that when you thought of the person and what they were SEEMINGLY doing to you, that you felt the sensations/feelings in the body. The same would happen when you think thoughts about being unenlightened.....right? Investigating the idea of someone bugging you would be a good idea to see what it is that they are doing that is triggering you. Because it’s not about them. They aren’t doing anything to you, it is how you perceive what you think they are doing that is triggering you, thereby you becoming frustrated and angry. What emotion is underneath the anger? Anger is a secondary emotion. It arises when we don’t want to feel the primary emotion/feeling. So what was emotion was triggered by your story about this person and when have you felt this emotion before? Same goes for the person who you didn't hear back from.

This is where The Work of Byron Katie comes in handy.
Let's say the thought is "I feel frustrated and angry with (name) because they didn't get back to me today".
You do the worksheet on that person and the turnarounds, and you will soon discover how you react when you have that thought. You will get thoughts and images of other times this has happened and you will get to see if that thought is actually true or not.

Addendum to my previous post -
I wonder as thoughts further qualify themselves into an underlying layer of thought, does exploring these feelings lead to uncovering all the layers of thought and all the way to the 1st event that caused it.

Yes. It is an important part of the investigation to see what thoughts/images are associated with feelings/sensations when they arise. You will find that the same images and thoughts appear many times over and over....that is because there are many layers to the trigger, and it can take time to find the root cause.

Kay

[rio]

Hi Kay,

Investigating the idea of someone bugging you would be a good idea to see what it is that they are doing that is triggering you. Because it’s not about them. They aren’t doing anything to you, it is how you perceive what you think they are doing that is triggering you, thereby you becoming frustrated and angry.

Yes, there are 2 point of views about what is taking place. One from the point of view of the other person which is completely different from my story/perception about their actions. Both are equally valid from their respective point of views. If I remind myself of this(both are valid) then the thought causing the suffering - 'this should not be happening' stops in its tracks.
However, I now understand why just cutting off any negative thought/emotion with a spiritual concept/distraction won't cure it at it's roots. Won't prevent it from arising again. Peeling back the layers of thoughts/beliefs is required to get the root of the cause. Thanks for this great pointer.

What emotion is underneath the anger? Anger is a secondary emotion. It arises when we don’t want to feel the primary emotion/feeling. So what was emotion was triggered by your story about this person and when have you felt this emotion before? Same goes for the person who you didn't hear back from.

Wow, I never considered anger as a secondary emotion.
On investigating I found that there is guilt that I am not devoting enough time/treating this other person(person A) right because of person B bugging me. And then Anger arises blaming person B.

In case of person C that I didn't hear back from, there seems to be an emotion of hurt/being betrayed.
In both cases Anger arises as a reaction/defense/solution to cover up/stop feeling these underlying emotions.

thanks,
Rio

[forgetmenot]

Hello Rio,

Great job of looking to see what emotions are actually playing out that anger is covering. As the undoing continues to happen, you will get to enjoy drilling down to root cause because of the freedom it brings from all those identities that are not you. Keep it up. If you would like to chat anytime via Skype again…we can do that.

Investigating the idea of someone bugging you would be a good idea to see what it is that they are doing that is triggering you. Because it’s not about them. They aren’t doing anything to you, it is how you perceive what you think they are doing that is triggering you, thereby you becoming frustrated and angry.

Yes, there are 2 point of views about what is taking place. One from the point of view of the other person which is completely different from my story/perception about their actions. Both are equally valid from their respective point of views. If I remind myself of this(both are valid) then the thought causing the suffering - 'this should not be happening' stops in its tracks.

The simple turn around of “this should be happening” because it is...that' the reality of it…is also a show stopper! :) Remember though, it’s not really about stopping stuff in its track but is for drilling down to see what belief/conditioning is running the “this shouldn’t be happening”. The happening touched a trigger, so it's finding what the belief that was triggered.

However, I now understand why just cutting off any negative thought/emotion with a spiritual concept/distraction won't cure it at it's roots. Won't prevent it from arising again. Peeling back the layers of thoughts/beliefs is required to get the root of the cause. Thanks for this great pointer.

Yep…and it takes time. A lot of thoughts/beliefs/conditioning is done unconsciously, so it does take time to become conscious of what is playing out. Most of the time we believe that it is part of who we are until we drill down and then see that it was trauma/conditioning/beliefs that we are playing roles through. One role to become aware of is the people pleaser!  There are others…but that one alone is a doozy!

What emotion is underneath the anger? Anger is a secondary emotion. It arises when we don’t want to feel the primary emotion/feeling. So what was emotion was triggered by your story about this person and when have you felt this emotion before? Same goes for the person who you didn't hear back from.

Wow, I never considered anger as a secondary emotion.
On investigating I found that there is guilt that I am not devoting enough time/treating this other person(person A) right because of person B bugging me. And then Anger arises blaming person B.

Great job looking to see what actual emotions were being bypassed via the anger.

Taking “I’m not devoting enough time to (person A)” to The Work will give you a clear picture (and more often then not a surprising one) of how you react when that thought arises, who would you be without that thought and the turnarounds.

You can look at what you are blaming person B about and put that to The Work as well.

In case of person C that I didn't hear back from, there seems to be an emotion of hurt/being betrayed.

“I feel betrayed by (person C) because they didn’t get back to me.”
Is that true?
Can you absolutely know it to be true?
How do you react when you think that thought
Do the turnarounds! 

In both cases Anger arises as a reaction/defense/solution to cover up/stop feeling these underlying emotions.

Yes! So now that you are aware of that…you can start to actually face and feel the actual emotions that are attached to your triggers. You will find that images of past experiences will appear because that is where you felt those feelings before that are attached to underlying beliefs, trauma and conditioning.

You are going great! Keep it up. :)

Kay

[rio]

Hi Kay,

The simple turn around of “this should be happening” because it is...that' the reality of it…is also a show stopper! :) Remember though, it’s not really about stopping stuff in its track but is for drilling down to see what belief/conditioning is running the “this shouldn’t be happening”. The happening touched a trigger, so it's finding what the belief that was triggered.

I completely resonate with this message. Thanks for this pointer.
It's almost like a Mantra that triggers when a 'this should not be happening' thought arises. Just turn inwards and find the belief instead of trying to complain about the situation.
I have gone through all The Work materials and understand it's methodology and efficacy. Excited to start applying it by using the worksheets.

One role to become aware of is the people pleaser!  There are others…but that one alone is a doozy!

Yes, trying to fit into the role the other person has crafted/imagined in their head and expects me to play/perform. I seem to be very sensitive to this one and have a natural rebellion towards this one. It does trigger anger. However, I made it a rule to not talk philosophy/point something in other unless explicitly asked for help. Like staying 'in their business' instead of impinging on mine.
I am not sure how to apply The Work on this one - Other peoples expectations of me.

Taking “I’m not devoting enough time to (person A)” to The Work will give you a clear picture (and more often then not a surprising one) of how you react when that thought arises, who would you be without that thought and the turnarounds.

You can look at what you are blaming person B about and put that to The Work as well.

On it.
I realized how scared I am to explore these things. There has always been a tendency to just wish them away or just ignore them. There was a belief that men should not get emotional and stay strong/manly, causing me to stop feeling and exploring emotions fully. I have put every single emotion under the rug my whole life. Completely ignoring this aspect of a human life.

“I feel betrayed by (person C) because they didn’t get back to me.”
Is that true?
Can you absolutely know it to be true?
How do you react when you think that thought
Do the turnarounds

It was simply not true. A very trivial thing was being blown out of proportion.
There are a bunch of different reactions - bitter, upset. Some story of rejection/not being good enough got associated with this.

Turnarounds -
I don't feel betrayed. - If the person is interested they will call. If Meant to happen, not in my control.
They feel betrayed. - Maybe I did something that they didn't like. Nothing that I am aware of worth apologizing for. Just not compatible.

Who would I be? - peaceful as I was before person C showed up on the scene :)

thanks,
Rio

[rio]

Hi Kay,
Addendum to my previous post -

One role to become aware of is the people pleaser!  There are others…but that one alone is a doozy!

I do seem to try and maintain this image of being unfazed/invulnerable to anything. This does prevent me from taking risks and getting out of my comfort zone. Fear of defeat/loss/rejection, as that can effect this image of perfection I am trying to maintain/convey to others. For who's sake - Seems like a social standing/survival strategy.

thanks
Rio

[forgetmenot]

Hello Rio,

One role to become aware of is the people pleaser!  There are others…but that one alone is a doozy!

Yes, trying to fit into the role the other person has crafted/imagined in their head and expects me to play/perform. I seem to be very sensitive to this one and have a natural rebellion towards this one. It does trigger anger. However, I made it a rule to not talk philosophy/point something in other unless explicitly asked for help. Like staying 'in their business' instead of impinging on mine.
I am not sure how to apply The Work on this one - Other peoples expectations of me.

Have a look at where you do people pleasing. Have you never said YES to something when you really wanted to say NO? People pleasing hides really well and much of it plays out unconsciously until we become aware of how and when it is playing out, and what roles we play in order to fit in, be loved and accepted. People pleasing is about manipulating and controlling others to get what we want. It is about making us feel safe and in control by trying to control the emotions and reactions of others and by controlling their perception of us. That’s just to point out a few ways that people pleasing happens. People pleasing is also about doing what is socially acceptable in order to fit in and be accepted (ie controlling people’s perception of us!). People pleasing is about getting love and approval and about getting validation and acknowledgements from others. We will people please in order to feel valued. So it has many tentacles. The validation we seek is false validation because we are playing a role to get the validation! How funny is that! People pleasing is about being seen as a good, kind, caring and loving person, because that is what is deemed to be valuable…along with being successful, driven and other such attributes that are considered to being a successful person.

It’s good to be aware of where others may have expectations of you, because then you have a choice in whether you say yes or no…on whether or not you want to meet their expectations. Just watch what happens when you say no to someone who is expecting something of you. How does it make you feel…especially if we think our job is on the line, or that we may hurt the other, or they might reject us, or that they may retaliate in some way. People pleasing is about the fear of not getting something we want, or the fear of losing something we have. We people please so we don’t have to feel bad, guilty, shameful! But when it comes to another, we can’t know what the other is thinking and we certainly can’t know what motivates another. We may have an inkling but we can’t actually know. We project our thoughts onto the other and say “they are thinking this”, “they are expecting this of me”. Unless they actually verbalise it, then it can’t possibly be known, and even if they do verbalise it, how do you know what meaning it has, other than your own meaning you project onto it. So unless you are someone who likes to be clear and can talk it out clearly with the other person…of what it is that they are wanting from you and why, then we can’t know what it is about or for. All we can know is how it makes us feel, how it makes us react and what it is we are wanting from the other.

When we Skype we can look at how you can put others expectations of you onto the JYN (judge your neighbor) worksheet.

You can look at what you are blaming person B about and put that to The Work as well.

On it.
I realized how scared I am to explore these things. There has always been a tendency to just wish them away or just ignore them. There was a belief that men should not get emotional and stay strong/manly, causing me to stop feeling and exploring emotions fully. I have put every single emotion under the rug my whole life. Completely ignoring this aspect of a human life.

What a wonderful realisation! You are on a roll! You are aware of when you ignore emotions….now become aware of how often you suppress not only emotions…but thoughts as well. We do this automatically because we learned to do it as children….so it may take a little time for you to become aware of when you are actually suppressing thoughts and emotions. By ignoring emotions you are ‘missing out’ what is unfolding in the present moment in its entirety, because your energy/attention is taken up in ignoring and suppressing.

One role to become aware of is the people pleaser!  There are others…but that one alone is a doozy!

I do seem to try and maintain this image of being unfazed/invulnerable to anything. This does prevent me from taking risks and getting out of my comfort zone. Fear of defeat/loss/rejection, as that can effect this image of perfection I am trying to maintain/convey to others. For who's sake - Seems like a social standing/survival strategy.

Yes! You’re on it! To have others love and approval, to be validated by others, to feel loved…we will go to great lengths to have these and we will do most anything to circumvent feeling like a bad person, to feel rejected, abandoned, alone, a failure, not good enough, guilty, shameful, unkind and so on!

I just love your honesty, openness and willingness to see what emotions, thoughts, reactions and roles you are playing out in order to maintain a false sense of self.

How are you going with rereading your thread?

Kay

[rio]

Hi Kay,

Thank you for the absolutely amazing skype session.
The thought 'I am never going to get it' is now resulting in giggling and happiness instead of the dread, shame and fear.
That's total magic.

How are you going with rereading your thread?

I am done with the rereading. I am ready to proceed with further looking.

thanks a lot :) and Immensely grateful.
Rio

[forgetmenot]

Hey Rio,

Thank you for the absolutely amazing skype session.
The thought 'I am never going to get it' is now resulting in giggling and happiness instead of the dread, shame and fear.
That's total magic.

You're welcome and lovely to hear about the giggling and happiness! :)

How are you going with rereading your thread?

I am done with the rereading. I am ready to proceed with further looking.

Great...so let's do the following as a quick recap!

1) Sit for the next 10 minutes and look at thoughts. Just let thoughts appear as they appear and notice what the thought actually is - words, images, bits of music - whatever appears.

Whenever a thought appears ask the following throughout the exercise.

- Did “I” do anything to make that thought appear?
- Could “I” have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
- Could “I” control thoughts in any way?

2) Do the same with sound.

Sit for 10 minutes and listen to sounds. Whenever a sound appears ask the following throughout the exercise.

- Did “I” do anything to make that sound appear?
- Did “I” have a choice in what sound appeared?
- Could “I” choose what name and meaning is given to the sound?
- Could “I” have done anything to make a different sound appear at that exact moment instead?
- Could “I” control sound in any way?

3) Do the same for sensation.

Sit for 10 minutes and notice sensation. Whenever a sensation appears ask the following throughout the exercise.

- Did “I” do anything to make that sensation appear?
- Could “I” choose what meaning is given to the sensation?
- Could “I” have done anything to make a different sensation appear at that exact moment instead?
- Could “I” control sensation in any way?

4) Do the same with colours (images). Images are made up of colours.

Sit for 10 minutes and look at colours (images). Whenever colours appear ask the following throughout the exercise.

- Did “I” do anything to make that colour/colours appear?
- Could “I” have done anything to make a different colour/s appear at that exact moment instead?
- Could “I” control colours in any way?

5) Do the same for smell and taste.

Sit for 10 minutes and notice smells or tastes. Whenever a smell or taste appears ask the following throughout the exercise.

- Did “I” do anything to make that smell or taste appear?
- Could “I” have done anything to make a different smell or taste appear at that exact moment instead?
- Could “I” control smell or taste in any way?

Kay

[rio]

Hi Kay,

1) Sit for the next 10 minutes and look at thoughts. Just let thoughts appear as they appear and notice what the thought actually is - words, images, bits of music - whatever appears.

Whenever a thought appears ask the following throughout the exercise.

- Did “I” do anything to make that thought appear?

No.
They just appear and disappear on their own. I do not know how they are produced and did not do anything to make that thought appear.

- Could “I” have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

No.
I could not have done anything to make a different thought appear at the exact moment instead.
AE of thought just comes about on its own as a reaction to some other AE.

- Could “I” control thoughts in any way?

No.
I do not have any control over thoughts. I am just aware of them as they arise.
Including the thoughts that might suggest I have some control or that say I have no control.

2) Do the same with sound.

Sit for 10 minutes and listen to sounds. Whenever a sound appears ask the following throughout the exercise.

- Did “I” do anything to make that sound appear?

No.
It just appears on it's own.

- Did “I” have a choice in what sound appeared?

No.
I cannot chose to hear certain sounds and not hear other sounds. I hear whatever sound arises.

- Could “I” choose what name and meaning is given to the sound?

No.
The name and labeling of sound happens immediately in the form of an AE of thought.

- Could “I” have done anything to make a different sound appear at that exact moment instead?

No.
I could not have done anything to make a different sound appear at that exact moment instead.Not in my control.

- Could “I” control sound in any way?

No.
I do not have any control over sound. I am just aware of whatever sound shows up.

3) Do the same for sensation.

Sit for 10 minutes and notice sensation. Whenever a sensation appears ask the following throughout the exercise.

- Did “I” do anything to make that sensation appear?

No.
I did not do anything to make that sensation appear.

- Could “I” choose what meaning is given to the sensation?

No.
AE of thought immediately labels the sensation and I do not have any choice in that matter.

- Could “I” have done anything to make a different sensation appear at that exact moment instead?

No.
I could not have done anything to make a different sensation appear at that exact moment instead.

- Could “I” control sensation in any way?

No.
I do not control sensation in any way. I am simply aware of whatever sensation arises.

4) Do the same with colours (images). Images are made up of colours.

Sit for 10 minutes and look at colours (images). Whenever colours appear ask the following throughout the exercise.

- Did “I” do anything to make that colour/colours appear?

No.
They just appear whether eyes are open or closed.

- Could “I” have done anything to make a different colour/s appear at that exact moment instead?

No.
I could not have done anything to make a different color/s appear at that exact moment instead

- Could “I” control colours in any way?

No.
I do not control colors in any way. I am just aware of whatever color/s show up.

5) Do the same for smell and taste.

Sit for 10 minutes and notice smells or tastes. Whenever a smell or taste appears ask the following throughout the exercise.

- Did “I” do anything to make that smell or taste appear?

No. Smell/s just appear on their own. Taste also appears on own it's own. I do not do anything to make them appear.

- Could “I” have done anything to make a different smell or taste appear at that exact moment instead?

No.
I could have done anything to make a different smell or taste appear at that exact moment instead?[/quote]

- Could “I” control smell or taste in any way?

No.
I cannot control smell or taste in any way. I am simply aware of whatever smell or taste arises.


Thanks,
Rio

[forgetmenot]

Hi Rio,

I do not have any control over thoughts. I am just aware of them as they arise.

Okay…so look carefully, where does a thought end and the knowing of it begin?

For a thought to be ‘known’ then there must be a ‘knowing’ of thought. Can a dividing line be found between the ‘knowing’ of the thought and the thought itself? Or is there only ‘knowingknown’?

I do not have any control over sound. I am just aware of whatever sound shows up.

And where does sound end and the knowing of sound begin?

When sound shows up, is there a 'sound experience' and a 'knowing of sound' experience? If not, then how can the sound be known through hearing? What sound? What hearing? Do ears hear?

I do not control sensation in any way. I am simply aware of whatever sensation arises.

Where does sensation end and the knowing of it begin?

Is experience which is labelled as 'sensation' and the awareness of the sensation two things?
Is there experience AND awareness, or is experience self-aware without a separate thing which is aware?

I do not control colors in any way. I am just aware of whatever color/s show up.

Look at the display in front of you.
Go to the actual experience itself and ignore the suggestion of thoughts/images.
When seeing it, is there any division between seeing, see-er, and the seen?
Are these three separate?
If yes, can you find the boundary between the three? Not an imagined, conceptual boundary, but an actual boundary that can be perceived with one or more of the senses?

I am simply aware of whatever smell or taste arises.

And where is this “I” that is aware OF smell or taste when it arises?
Where is it located and what does it look like exactly?

Kay

[rio]

Hi Kay,

Okay…so look carefully, where does a thought end and the knowing of it begin?

The knowing begins with thought and end with the thought. It's the same thing. There is just knowing of a thought and no thing called as 'thought' independent of it's knowing.

For a thought to be ‘known’ then there must be a ‘knowing’ of thought. Can a dividing line be found between the ‘knowing’ of the thought and the thought itself? Or is there only ‘knowingknown’?

There is only 'knowingknown' and a dividing line cannot be found.

And where does sound end and the knowing of sound begin?

There is just the knowing of sound and separate thing as sound is not there.

When sound shows up, is there a 'sound experience' and a 'knowing of sound' experience? If not, then how can the sound be known through hearing? What sound? What hearing? Do ears hear?

There is a 'knowing of sound experience' and not a 'sound experience'.
There is just 'knowing of sound' and I do not experience ears/brain etc during the direct experience of sound.
AE of thought suggests all that.

Where does sensation end and the knowing of it begin?

There is simply the experience of 'knowingsound'. A thing called sound does not exist outside my knowing of it.

Is experience which is labelled as 'sensation' and the awareness of the sensation two things?

It is the same thing. Every experience labelled 'sensation' is awareness of sensation. There is no experience devoid of awareness.

Is there experience AND awareness, or is experience self-aware without a separate thing which is aware?

There is just self-aware experience. Cannot separate the two.

Look at the display in front of you.
Go to the actual experience itself and ignore the suggestion of thoughts/images.
When seeing it, is there any division between seeing, see-er, and the seen?

Without thoughts, there is just a single seamless indivisible experience.'seeing', 'see-er' and 'seen' are then labelled by thought in its attempt to classify and explain things.

Are these three separate?

Without thought the 3 categories do not exist in direct experience. They are not separate, there is just a single undivided experience - seeing. Thought then breaks that up into 'see-er' and 'seen'

If yes, can you find the boundary between the three? Not an imagined, conceptual boundary, but an actual boundary that can be perceived with one or more of the senses?

The boundary is imagined/conceptual. No actual boundary can be found.
Even a boundary between 2 experiences from 2 different senses cannot be found.

And where is this “I” that is aware OF smell or taste when it arises?

There is simply awareness of smell and then awareness of taste. There is continuous awareness of 'this'/'that'. One experience after another.
Without thought imagining/conceptualizing there is just awareness of 'x'-smelling and tasting. Thought then breaks the experience into 'taster' and 'tasted', calling the 'taster' as 'I'.

Where is it located and what does it look like exactly?

Location unknown, looks like what - unknown :)


thanks,
Rio

[forgetmenot]

Hello Rio,

Are these three separate?

Without thought the 3 categories do not exist in direct experience. They are not separate, there is just a single undivided experience - seeing. Thought then breaks that up into 'see-er' and 'seen'

Yes, ‘colours’ is simply ‘seeing’ appearing as 'colours'. Not even that though, because there is no way to see something other than colours. In that sense, colours and seeing are synonyms. ‘Seeing’ is consciousness appearing as ‘seeing’. There is no see-er and seen. Same goes for sound, taste, thought etc.

I like what Rupert Spira writes:-
“I cannot know what anything is. All I know is that I am aware of being aware….but I can’t know things because there are no things…there are no objects. I am the knowing with which everything is known and the knowing and known are one and the same. I cannot know myself, I am myself…..I am. There is no knowing objects…they are me and I cannot know myself, I would have to be outside of myself to know myself….so I don’t know what a thought is, what a sound is etc, I don’t know what a table is…all I know is that I am aware of being aware and everything I am aware of is me.”


Okay, so we have already looked at the idea of a ‘hand’ and ‘head’, so let’s take that further and look at the idea of the body as a whole.

Sit quietly somewhere with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside?
If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc.) before replying.

Kay

[forgetmenot]

Hello Rio....it's been several days since I posted to you and I haven't heard from you. Is everything okay?

Kay

[rio]

Hi Kay,

Sorry, for the late reply, was having trouble with the last 2 questions. Needed more time to redo them a few times.

Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:
Can it be known how tall the body is?

Without thoughts and images there are just sensations arising along with AE of sounds. The height of the body is not known.

Does the body have a weight or volume?

Without thoughts there is no concept of weight or volume.

In actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

In actual experience body does not have any shape or form. There is just AE of sensations arising.

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?

No, there is no boundary. Just AE of sensations that does not suggest anything. They do not suggest body or clothing.

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

No, there is no boundary between the body and the chair. The AE of sensations do not suggest there being a body and a seperate chair that the body is sitting on. AE of thought suggests all that.

Is there an inside or an outside?

No. All sensations and sounds are arising in the same aware space. There is no line to demarcate inside and outside.

If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?

Thought suggests the division - sensations inside the body. But in Actual experience there is just sensations arising in the same space as the sounds.

If there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?

Thought suggests the division - sounds outside the body. But in Actual experience there is just sound arising in the same space as the sensations.

You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc.) before replying.
What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

The label/word 'body' refers to the image (AE of color) and all AE of sensations.

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

The actual experience of the body is AE of sensations and AE of color.

With eyes closed, sounds and sensations are all mixed up and arising in the same space and it's difficult to isolate or label just sensations as the body.
With eyes open, all color, human figure and chair arise in the same space and it's difficult to isolate just the image of the human figure from the rest.
From direct experience I can say that I am aware of sensations/sounds/color and thought then labeling a certain portion of that experience as 'body' and with that division then there is inside/outside.


thanks,
Rio