The Gate

Hi Mike,

There is no control over any of these, this I have come to see clearly.

Is this an intellectual knowing, or deep experiential recognition?
Can you say with 100% certainty that there is no such thing a chooser?
Is it completely clear that there is no I/me choosing or deciding?
Is it totally clear that there is no such thing as choice or free will?

If not, please write some examples when it seems to be otherwise.

No the universe does what it does there is no control over any of it.

Let' check this. Let's investigate closely.

What is the direct experience of "universe "?
Can you see, smell, touch or taste it?
Where does the information that the universe is doing things coming from?
How is it known experientially that the universe doing all things?
What if this is just an assumption?

Knowing there is nothing to control in regard to the sensations brought about by this cold has brought me ease in the discomfort of the coughing and congestion as I rest and let the body do its healing, no more complaining or feeling sorry for my self lol :)

Lovely description! Маке use of the cold :-)

Wishing you a quick recovery, Mike.


Much love,
Luchana

Thanks Luchana.
I will spend more time with these questions and look to respond perhaps tomorrow.

Take care,
Mike

Thank you for writing, Mike.

Тake your time.

Much love
Luchana

Hi Luchana, hope all is going well :)

Is this an intellectual knowing, or deep experiential recognition?
Can you say with 100% certainty that there is no such thing a chooser?
Is it completely clear that there is no I/me choosing or deciding?
Is it totally clear that there is no such thing as choice or free will?

I see and know there not to be a chooser or free will, yet a doubt still lingers. There seems time when decisions are made that are to the detriment of the being, such as over eating or addictions like to unhealthy things like smoking or drinking...it seems these patterns operate on programming from repetition or comfort (avoiding issues) yet to break the programming isn't there an active voice that is deciding not to engage in those patterns? I can't locate such a thing other than the observer which I've seen to be just another thought layer. Anyhow this all is in the arena of thought content and in direct moment to moment I recognize there is nothing doing the choosing ... perhaps closer examination is needed when confronted with desire to overeat or pick an unhealthy food option arises in the moment in a non experiment type confrontation. Will report back how this goes.

What is the direct experience of "universe "?

The current now experience. Ah I see, universe label indicates some otherwordly force still at play rather than just what is.

Can you see, smell, touch or taste it?

Not as a distinct unique thing it encompasses what is in the surrounding experience, not a unique thing of its own.

Where does the information that the universe is doing things coming from?

I see it is based on thoughts nothing directly real.

How is it known experientially that the universe doing all things?

It isn't that was a blind assumption.

What if this is just an assumption?

Indeed it was :) thank you for point it out to me!

Have company over this weekend so may not have much opportunity to reply until sunday evening.

Much love,
Mike

Hi Mike,

thank you for your honest reply. Let's look together.

it seems these patterns operate on programming from repetition or comfort (avoiding issues) yet to break the programming isn't there an active voice that is deciding not to engage in those patterns?

What is saying or having 'active voice’?

What is directing the 'active voice'?

What decides what the assumed 'active voice' says?

How does 'active voice' as such experienced?

What is it made of?


Take your time and write what it's true for you.

Much love,
Luchana

Hi Luchana,

What is saying or having 'active voice’?

This active voice is seen as just more thought activity.

What is directing the 'active voice'?
What decides what the assumed 'active voice' says?

There is no controlling or deciding of this thought content.

How does 'active voice' as such experienced?
What is it made of?

It is experienced as an arising thought with content that is falsely believed.

After meditating on my previous post some more I realized I was letting “mind” and belief get in the way of experience again. The so called “active voice” is mere thought activity of the “mind”, nothing that is directly findable. Even the dilemmas presented are based on past memories and not the current situation and when seen as such can be more easily disassociated from the past thought or belief. I recognize now that in these circumstances I was letting “mind” bias or precondition the experience presented rather than approaching the experience new with unformed thoughts about it.

Apologies for the intellectualizing but it seemed the only way I could describe what I was realizing.

Still getting used to this way of viewing things but the doubt and resistance I was having have dropped substantially.

With gratitude,
Mike

Hi Mike,

I would like to ask you the read these sentences, which I took from your message.

“I realized I was letting “mind””
mere thought activity of the “mind”
I was letting “mind” bias or precondition the experience presented”

Can you notice something in common?

It's the word mind into quotation. You might think that you can see that there is no mind, but that could be just an intellectual understanding, otherwise you wouldn't mention it 3 times. So it's better to investigate this topic further. Do you agree?

If so let's see:

“I realized I was letting “mind””

This statement assume that there is “a you” on one hand and something called “a mind” on the other.

How can “a mind” as such is experienced?

Where is it’s location? What about it’s size? Colour?

Literally LOOK for the mind. Without imagination.

Can you find mind somewhere?

Apologies for the intellectualizing but it seemed the only way I could describe what I was realizing.

All is good :-) I appreciate your honesty, Mike. This is one of the key in this investigation.
The other is looking.


Much love to you
Luchana

Hi Luchana,

You might think that you can see that there is no mind, but that could be just an intellectual understanding, otherwise you wouldn't mention it 3 times. So it's better to investigate this topic further. Do you agree?

Yes I agree.

“I realized I was letting “mind””

This statement assume that there is “a you” on one hand and something called “a mind” on the other.

How can “a mind” as such is experienced?

When looking for mind all I can find is thoughts. This belief in a center that is observing or managing the content of these thoughts is stubborn. Yet I see there is no center there. Today's practice has helped but I get a sense its like the mind telling itself this, it just won't let go.

Where is it’s location? What about it’s size? Colour?

The mind is not an object, it has no location or no attributes, it cannot be pointed to as existing at all.

Literally LOOK for the mind. Without imagination.
Can you find mind somewhere?

There is nothing in the surroundings that could be called mind.

I greatly appreciate your reminders and pointers Luchana, much love!
-Mike

Hi Mike.

This belief in a center that is observing or managing the content of these thoughts is stubborn.

What if this belief is just a thought? A stubborn one.
I would ask you to really LOOK and not just consider it by thinking

Actually it is very simple.
What if there is no center at all?
Thoughts are coming, thoughts are going, sensations arrise and subcide.
You actually have to look with this question, you have to literally look and not just consider it intellectually.

Look around - can you a find a center? Somewhere?
Is there a possibility to reach the center?
If there is such a center/a mind, you must find a way to reach it.

And if you reach it - describe me as precisely as you can how is it looks like.
What is its colour, how big is it, how does it smell, or what is the feeling when you touch it.

How can the center/mind be experienced in reality?

Remember - only reality check. No thinking, no speculation, no assumptions.

Much love
Luchana

Hi Luchana,

you have to literally look and not just consider it intellectually.

This reminder helped a ton, I didn't realize how much I was intellectualizing the notion of no center, no mind.
It is clear as day there is no center to be found when looking. It was all just being stuck in thinking about it that messed me up. It really is pretty simple. Thank you for bringing this thinking trap to the forefront again.

What if there is no center at all?
Look around - can you a find a center? Somewhere?
Is there a possibility to reach the center?

As you said in your reply and as I've continued looking, I fully see this belief really is just a thought and comes and goes on its own. I was getting stuck conceptualizing it and attempting to mentally grasp no mind which seems impossible and useless anyhow when all is just happening in the moment. Anyhow I see that there is no center, no mind, and nothing is impacted by this, all is good!

Much appreciation for you,
-Mike

Hi Mike,

This reminder helped a ton,

I'm glad that it helped. Actually it is the main tool :-)
Let's look together than.

It is clear as day there is no center to be found when looking

Can you really see experientially that there is no center, or is it rather an intellectual understanding?

It was all just being stuck in thinking about it that messed me up.

What is it that were being stuck in thinking?

What has the ability to stuck in thinking?

"I was getting stuck conceptualizing it and attempting to mentally grasp no mind"

And what is that were getting stuck conceptualizing it?

What has the power to get stuck conceptualizing it?

"Anyhow I see that there is no center, no mind, and nothing is impacted by this, all is good!

Can you say with 100% certainty that there is nothing at the center, that there is no self, that there is literally nothing being impacted, or is it rather just an intellectual understanding?


What I mean is that you don't just quickly say that "nothing", but actually really look.
Spend a whole day on looking for the thing that could be stuck in thinking and coceptualizing and mentally grasping of no mind.

Look with curiosity and be very alert.

Much love,
Luchana

Hi Luchana,

Can you really see experientially that there is no center, or is it rather an intellectual understanding?

No center isn't really in the awareness of the experience when looking, a thought of no center comes up and that would be considered an intellectual understanding. Anytime a sense of self comes up I see it tends to get me to shift to thinking again rather than just observing. I am able to notice it more and more however and release it.

What is it that were being stuck in thinking?
What has the ability to stuck in thinking?
And what is that were getting stuck conceptualizing it?
What has the power to get stuck conceptualizing it?

I blocked all these questions together as they all refer to a belief of self, this self is what was being assumed to get stuck.

Can you say with 100% certainty that there is nothing at the center, that there is no self, that there is literally nothing being impacted, or is it rather just an intellectual understanding?

I cannot say 100% of the time the sense of self is gone, it is noticed to be in place at times throughout the day and is acknowledged and released as soon as noticed. Examining this over the past couple of days it seems the self belief is what kept appearing and rehashing different thoughts and scenarios while preparing my responses to your questions.

Much appreciation,
Mike

Hi Mike.

I'm sorry for the delay.

Reading this

“Anytime a sense of self comes up I see it tends to get me to shift to thinking again rather than just observing. I am able to notice it more and more however and release it. “

few things come up. Please read them carefully. Actually is very good that they come on the surface, so that we can look at them.

1. Why the sense of a self should stop coming up? Once the illusion is seen through it doesn't mean that the sense of a self will stop appearing. The illusion (the sense of a self) will continue appear. To keep looking and checking the reality (looking through the illusion) is very much the key. Once is seen, it cannot be unseen. The seeing and knowing becomes factual. But it doesn't mean that the self will never be taken as something real at any moment. It's just about being able to see it every time when it's looked at. But in the next moment (of not looking) the self might be taken real. But when checked again, it's clear that it's not there.

2. You believe that seeing through the self means, not to be INSIDE the story, but be OUTSIDE of the story as an observer. To be a separate observer, untouched by everything. This is a very common belief among non-dual and advaita seackers. But this is just an uninvestigated and unquestioned belief. There is nothing that can observe anything. And that’s the beauty.
The observer you are trying to become IS the self itself.
Observer = self
So it's not about becoming or staying as a background observer. That would be the SAME self just in a disguise.

3. You are trying to release something and acheive something, rather than looking. You believe that the self is something that can be released, that there are 2 selves, and self 2 has the ability to release self-1. But the one that is trying to release the self IS the self. Trying to release the self is a trick, it's part of the illusion.
The releaser = self
There is NO another you who could release the other self.
The releaser and the released are the SAME.
The same illusion.
The same illusionary self.
Just in a disguise.

Let's look together very thoroughly with the following questions. Since it's not enough to understand and accept what I wrote above. That would be totally useless for you. You have to see it for yourself, experientially.

"Anytime a sense of self comes up I see it tends to get me to shift to thinking again rather than just observing. I am able to notice it more and more however and release it. “"

WHAT is it exactly that gets into thinking?

Where is this I that could think or observe?

And where and what is the I which has to power to release the other self?

How many selves are there?



Look very carefully.

How many selves are there in experience?

Are there really two? One? Zero? Three?


Please don't just guess or theorize. You really have to look.

Find this special self which you called as an observer.

Where is it? Where exactly? - find its exact physical location.


Just look, Mike.

Sending love
Luchana

Hi Luchana,

Thank you for the detailed reply. I concur with a lot of what you describe in items 1-3 of your response. I sometimes find it difficult to explain my experience clearly in my responses and that could be contributing to some confusion as well.

Today has been rather busy at work and I haven't been able to spend as much time as I'd like with the questions. I'll investigate these more later in the day and should be able to get a more detailed response later tonight or sometime tomorrow.

Take care,
Mike

Hi Mike,

thank you for writing. No rush, all is good.

Much love,
Luchana