I feel that I am real

[Ashman247]

Also Nic,

I think part of my inability to see I’ve got this is that I am still suffering so much. Moods and emotions. My mind tells me if I had really seen there is no I , then these emotions would have ceased.

So as long as I feel suffering I think that there is a me and that I haven’t really seen.

[Skygazer74]

Hi,

It is all good, every time you look into DE and see what is and isnt there, you are taking a foray into that field :) Eventually there will be no reason to go back..

It just seems like my sense of self snaps back into place so strongly after any seeing.

So what exactly happens when this seems to happen? Can you try to really explore it in DE? I know it isnt always easy to catch such things, but give it a go and let me know what you find.

Thats what this pervasive sense of self feels like- an irrational pervasive thought that I know is nonsensical and for which there is no evidence but I can’t seem to shift.

Ok, and yes like the thought that the gas was left on, there may be a physical or emotional element - tension or unease? There may be this thought, but does it actually designate anything? It seems to be trying to refer to something which cannot be found, so how else could you describe that?

It is a bit like belief in Santa, we believe in it for a while, and then find out there is no such thing. If you keep looking, that pervasive thought or sense of self will no longer have anywhere to stand. When thought describes or asserts this 'me' simply look into DE and see that what it points to is not there, again and again.

I think part of my inability to see I’ve got this is that I am still suffering so much. Moods and emotions. My mind tells me if I had really seen there is no I , then these emotions would have ceased.

So as long as I feel suffering I think that there is a me and that I haven’t really seen.

Yes, expectations! There will still be emotions and moods and suffering, but they are not personal or are no longer identified with. Is there any way in which an emotion is you or yours?
Is there any way in which this sense of self or pervasive thought is you or yours?
Is there any way in which mind is you or yours?

[Ashman247]

Hi Nic,

I have noticed some changes over the past few days- the main one is a lessening of suffering. I generally feel a lot better especially in the mornings after waking when I usually can feel guilty or depressed for no apparent reason. However since looking for the self this suffering has eased a lot .

So what exactly happens when this seems to happen? Can you try to really explore it in DE

I have been observing this today when my so called sense of self re-emerges I have seen that a thought arises that is all. It does not point to anything concrete or real at all- it is simply a thought insisting it is representing a self. Yet I see not one shred of evidence.

There may be this thought, but does it actually designate anything? It seems to be trying to refer to something which cannot be found, so how else could you describe that?

I agree my sense of self is a “claim” which the only proof if offers for being a self is that if “feels like it is”. It does not confirm or validate this against anything real. This sense of self is like a person insisting he is a King is a particular land because he says he is, yet offering no physical evidence or proof or showing anything that backs up this claim. The thought of self just insists this is how “I” feels and “I” then believe it. It’s total insanity I can see that .

Is there any way in which an emotion is you or yours?
Is there any way in which this sense of self or pervasive thought is you or yours?
Is there any way in which mind is you or yours?

I logically and In DE now know no emotion or sense of self is mine. However the conditioned mind still has a hard time accepting that. When I feel say offended it really does feel like it is “me” who is offended. However this is just a thought as nothing backs up the suggestion that there is someone being offended here. There is an emotion and that’s the only reality there is.

Everything else is an added (very convincing) story added to that emotion. So emotion arising very quickly becomes - Emotion= offends and then - I am offended. All made up stories held together because I am assuming that the thought that is arising is “I”.

Mind is not me I accept that- but it does seem like mine. However the question then is “to whom does mine belong” and the DE answer is - no one. Just a thought of a self.

[Skygazer74]

Mind is not me I accept that- but it does seem like mine. However the question then is “to whom does mine belong” and the DE answer is - no one. Just a thought of a self.

Nice. So is there anything left? And there may be conditioning that comes up for some time after the gate, habits of thought may still arise - and pass. It is simply a case of carrying that difference between DE and thought through your experience until there is no more effort. Or opening beyond constructs and thought into awareness if you prefer that language.

I have noticed some changes over the past few days- the main one is a lessening of suffering. I generally feel a lot better especially in the mornings after waking when I usually can feel guilty or depressed for no apparent reason. However since looking for the self this suffering has eased a lot .

Wonderful! This sounds like a breakthrough?

I have been observing this today when my so called sense of self re-emerges I have seen that a thought arises that is all. It does not point to anything concrete or real at all- it is simply a thought insisting it is representing a self.

This is all we are moving towards, that it is only a thought and nothing else. Take some time to simply explore what is happening, noticing (as you have) the changes, and noticing if anything comes up which makes you feel as though we are not done :)

[Skygazer74]

Also Damian, if you want another exercise, this one can be lovely:

Go out into nature and spend some time watching the movement of the whole. See how clouds move, trees swing, leaves wiggle, grass moves, insects, birds - all move all the time.

Then move focus to sensations and see how they too are in constant motion, thoughts come and go, sounds, colours, sensations come and go.

Notice that everything is part of one movement.

Then close your eyes and see if there is a line between you and out there, between you and life itself. If yes, where is the boundary?
Is there an inside and an outside of Life?
Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?
Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance?
Is witnessing part of the one movement too?
Is there anything which is not just happening?

Go out, come back and tell me what you found.

[Ashman247]

Hi Nic

Just taking the time to do the exercise given. Will message back soon.

Thanks

[Skygazer74]

Hi,

Thanks for checking in, take your time if you need to, there is a lot to integrate!

Best wishes,

Nic

[Ashman247]

Hi Nic,

Then close your eyes and see if there is a line between you and out there, between you and life itself. If yes, where is the boundary?
Is there an inside and an outside of Life?
Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?
Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance?
Is witnessing part of the one movement too?
Is there anything which is not just happening?

I have been taking in all that we have spoken about. I see clearly that there is no distinct self no I. I wonder though if the sense of I that still persists in a thought can be seen to be seen as just a thought which arises in observation. In other words the feeling of I is really the feeling of pure observation and not an observer?

In looking at your questions:

I cannot find any actual line between that which is looking and that which is seen. No actual boundary.

There is no inside or outside any such distinction is just a thought.

Everything is included in the whole- I find nothing that is not.

The question about a witness is the trickiest as my initial reaction is to say yes. However on DE there is no separate witness- there is only witnessing. I am so used to this idea of there being a witness I sometimes struggle to see it is just a thought

Yes the witness is part of the one whole

Everything is just happening one thing connected. The only sense of separation comes from a thought .

[Skygazer74]

Hi Damian,

Well it sounds as if you are doing well and that we are getting there!

I have been taking in all that we have spoken about. I see clearly that there is no distinct self no I. I wonder though if the sense of I that still persists in a thought can be seen to be seen as just a thought which arises in observation. In other words the feeling of I is really the feeling of pure observation and not an observer?

Yes if it is only a thought it is only a thought. I sometimes have ridiculous thoughts and certainly don't believe them all! There is observation, and no observer, just as there seeing and no seer. It all still happens, the thoughts, feelings, sensing, and none of it belongs to or happens for a self. Do you feel clear that it is only a thought? Is there any I in the observing that can be found?

The question about a witness is the trickiest as my initial reaction is to say yes. However on DE there is no separate witness- there is only witnessing. I am so used to this idea of there being a witness I sometimes struggle to see it is just a thought

Yes same thing - and you know, after the gate, thoughts of a self may still arise because the conditioning is lifelong. Its simply a case of seeing that it is a thought, an illusion, because the thought points to nothing. If there is ever doubt about this then simply see if you can find what the thought points to. Is there any I in the witnessing?

It feels like we might be done, do you think we are done? If so I can send you the final questions which will then be looked at by another guide, and when approved we can point you to resources for post gate.

How does this all feel?

Best wishes,

Nic

PS I am getting on a long haul flight tomorrow and will be travelling for a few days, so if I drop off that is why :)

[Ashman247]

Do you feel clear that it is only a thought? Is there any I in the observing that can be found?

Yes I can see that thoughts are arising and I am become my better at seeing what they are.

Is there any I in the witnessing?

It feels like we might be done, do you think we are done? If so I can send you the final questions which will then be looked at by another guide, and when approved we can point you to resources for post gate.

How does this all feel?

There is no I in the witnessing , all thoughts simply point to nothing - all thoughts simply point to a suggestion of an I but in reality point to nothing.

I think we are done. Many thanks for your guidance Nic it’s been really life changing. I hope to be able to continue with the seeing that I have experienced and continue to break the conditioning of a separate self.

[Skygazer74]

Hi Michael,

Sorry for the delay, I flew from the UK to New Zealand and have had to go into self-isolation - I tried to tell them that is impossible but they didn't get it!

Anyway I am happy to read your response, and it has been a pleasure. Here are the final questions so we can get you registered for the forums and resources post-gate:


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
6) Anything to add?

Best wishes,

Nic

[Ashman247]

Hi Nic,

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No there is not. There is no separate entity , me or I . It is a shadow, a claim, an illusion. Something that it is claimed is real but cannot be found or located in direct experience. There was never an I. Any interaction with such an I requires thought to kick in to keep the grand illusion in place.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of a separate self is a mistaken belief. It is like adding 2+2 and believe it creates 5 because you are unaware your whole premise and foundation of maths is incorrect. The illusion of a separate self is like walking into your kitchen and seeing a milk bottle spilt on the floor and a cat standing over it covered in milk. The thinking mind concludes that it knows for sure that the cat must have spilt the milk.

So it creates a whole narrative (and identity) around this idea. Yet the thinking mind doesn’t know that the cat could have been planted there by someone else who wanted it to look like the cat did it.

That is the illusion of the separate self. All the evidence seems to point to an I. ‘I’ seems to have a name a form a body an identity etc etc clothes a house a car a job. However when I itself is to be found and not the things pertaining to I, it cannot be seen. Only “reactions” of “I” or “effects of I” but not this so called I itself

It has no physical shape, no colour, no tone, no specific location , and can only be engage with my conjuring up thoughts about it, which are not it but again something pertaining to it.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels such a relief to see this , as it’s something I’ve always known but not been able to clearly articulate in my head’. I’ve always kinda got this but now I see how the illusion works how it is out together , and I can see how suffering has kept it in place for me. Suffering has reinforced this I and kept me in a search for an end to it. Now I see that the idea of an entity suffering who needs to figure out how to make it stop , has just kept me in a kind of loop of suffering and strengthened the feels of a separate I.

Now I see that the illusion of separation is the suffering. This idea there is someone for whom things have some how gone wrong has perpetuated this belief of not being able to get it right. Now I feel that no matter how much the thinking mind insists there is and never will be evidence of an I entity.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

Recent events of mass panic in the media. I could see so clearly how people were filling in gaps in stories and getting 5! I hadn’t seen clearly so far that that’s what I was doing in relation to the very idea of a self. I could see how implying something was true would automatically prompt the thinking mind into filling in the gaps and creating a reality. I recently saw that that’s what I have been doing with my very self! Seeing the ‘iconography’ apparently connected to ‘my life’ and creating a whole entity that ‘must’ exist- irrespective of the evidence.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Decision is an illusion. A thought that comes after and says “I did that”. It is an after thought of a false identity attempting to assert its realness by pleading guilty to the action! Decision however always comes after the event (a realisation of it does). A memory of us deciding.

Intention is a thought projected into the future attached to the natural flow of life. Life flows and thoughts arise and mind says “that’s my intention”- (simile to decision). It’s mind or illusory thoughts way of claiming identity. However the thought of intention and the eventual
Outcome arise spontaneously with no input from anyone.

Free will- the ‘me’ thoughts’ best attempt to claim it is real. It is a kind of agreement that we all assume must be (for whatever reason, religious , moral etc) and so the idea of free will is assigned to a me. However as I clearly saw with the hand lifting exercise - there is no I choosing. There is no I interacting with a choice there is just action. Free will is an after story copied and pasted onto life to attempt to validate the existence of a me.


Control. This is the me thoughts’ best weapon against anxiety. By suggesting before or after an event that ‘I’ chose to do it ‘me’ thought can hold onto the illusion of itself a while longer, and strengthen the illusion by asserti by asserting it was ‘me’ who actually made that choice and controlled things, so ‘me’ must be real.

Control is a projected thought into a completely boundless free life stream in order to attempt to validate the existence of an I.


6)

Anything to add?

Thank you ‘Nic’ so much ! Can’t wait for our next cosmic interactions!

[Skygazer74]

Hi Damian,

Aplogies - I was replying to someone else called Michael yesterday and must have got confused!

Thanks for your answers, it all looks fairly clear to me - I will now submit this for approval from other guides. This might take a few days, but if they have any further questions I will let you know, and if not they will be in touch with details and further resources for you.

Best wishes, it has been a pleasure,

Nic

[Skygazer74]

Hi Damian,

I see you have been confirmed - congratulations! Please don't hesitate to drop me a line and let me know how you are getting along :)

Best wishes,

Nic

[Ashman247]

Hi Nic,

Where have I been confirmed ? I didn’t receive any notification from anyone .

Where can I find the resources to the next steps?

Thanks again

Damian