The Gate

Hi Eli,

What do you want to happen? How will you know this is done? Describe what awakening looks like.

:)

Delma

Hello Delma,

What do you want to happen?

I'm motivated by making this constant concern with the character stop. With keeping up this persona, being congruent, consistent, fitting in some box, being approved by people, stupid things that don't matter and aren't real, ... Reallocate that attention to staying aware of this crazy situation we're in, being aware, being alive. I'm having a subjective experience of an evolved monkey sitting on a rock flying through space. It's amazing and I'm sitting here trying to control everything and finding life tedious. Sorry for the drama ;)

How will you know this is done? Describe what awakening looks like.

When thoughts arise and they are seen as just something going prattle prattle prattle out of nowhere. Not orders to follow, not personal, without power.

When this body is seen as just another person in the perceived world. Not special, not me vs the others.

Oo, this is interesting. Not sure how to explain, but something like, when awareness is seen to be experiencing itself. This feeling of separation, of me here versus that object there, gone. I'm not seeing the laptop, the laptop is appearing to itself, or something. Same for touch feeling. The sensation of pressure in the fingers on the buttons. It's not appearing to a me here, it's just kind of appearing over there, to itself. Sound too. Everything.

One can only dream.

Is it possible to notice getting closer to stepping through the gate, or whatever you want to call it? Or is it just kind of a thing where you now get it, whereas a few seconds ago you didn't? Like flicking a switch? Sorry, I know this is distracting from looking. Probably not helpful. But the last few days I've had periods of lightness, of being a bit more detached. A me there, but less celophane wrapping around my head, feeling the world more openly. Again, hard to explain.

I'm going to laugh at all this one day, aren't I?

Hi Eli,

You have seen. But you're waiting for an experience. And you're waiting for this experience to happen to You.

Is that an honest assessment? Or am I off base?

I keep pointing you to look beyond that but you're stuck there because you want something FOR YOURSELF. lol... can you see the impossibility? You are grasping for Eli to see this. And yet the truth is also clearly seen... that this is an entirely impersonal experience. But... when it doesn't belong to anyone, to Eli, it's not as attractive.

The lie is that you will find the gateless gate.

Why not just face the truth you've already discovered?

It occurs to me that your title, "just need a little push" is apt. The little push, however, isn't so little. It's just an acceptance of what's already discovered.

There's an aspect of this that is about Surrender. Sometimes it means that you have to have trust in the guide. You understand that they're not convincing you of a belief. Sometimes it means that you have to surrender the idea that you understood the world and your place in it, that you're smarter than the average bear, that you're an independent thinker, and that the wool can't be pulled over your eyes.

But that's why I just ask questions and let you answer. I let you find your own truth. Why, when the words and discoveries are yours, do you not believe that it could really be that simple? What would happen if you surrendered to your own findings?

What would happen?

You're right.

This is supposed to be earth shattering and Eli's treating it like a fun fact to tell at parties. Even now, something's listening to you, but Eli's immediately off pretending to surrender to see if he can fake it to make it.

Seeing isn't the issue. Like you said before, the question is what does this discovery mean. That hasn't been faced. At all. Will need to let your words sink in.

Thank you

Ok. That's a good idea. Sit with it, but don't take too long to report back. I don't want you to give up. I just want you to process what you've discovered.

Come back soon.
Delma

I won't give up. I don't see a way back anyway. Thank you for not giving up either though. It really means so much, especially since now there's a feeling of despair, that I simply am too self motivated and dishonest to do this. Stupid, all this self talk, since it doesn't exist. At least the fact you're still here means something.

It just looks futile now. Every single little move or thought is automatic, not caused by a self. What can be done. Who is there to accept.

Other times I almost forget. I go to the office and at home I watch TV. Bad insincere student!

It's like someone told me my entire family died in a horrible explosion and I'm saying "oh, that's bad. Anyway, can they come help me move a couch?". Weird example, but that's what the level of acceptance looks like right now.

It all looks insincere. The self's faking surrender, faking acceptance, keeping an eye out for the surprise in case the universe buys into it. Who is there to sincerely accept this. There's no one.

And there's the other part. The undeniability. The awareness, the lack of evidence for a self, the lack of evidence for a whole lot of things, and the lack of control. It's undeniably strange.

What can possibly be done...

Self's being dramatic.

Hi Eli,

I can't say enough about how important this stage is. It's hard. It can seem as though it's time to throw up our hands in a "what's the use" gesture. But where you are now is key. It's real. It's not a bunch of blissful BS sold in spiritual markets. It's why U G Krishnamurti is a thing.

But wait... look at what life/awareness does. It keeps appearing. Like a freaking miracle it just keeps appearing in all the colors, textures, scents, sounds... it's absolutely stunning in its miraculousness. Can you imagine? We look for miracles and wonder OUTSIDE of THIS. What a joke. What a distraction. This just keeps going.

So, what's there to do? Is it all just futile? Or is this an opportunity to relax as experience experiences itself? To let go of the need to create meaning for the self, or control for the self... to watch as everything unfolds... the body takes care of its needs with signals. We take care of our young or frail... why? Why is there an unending drive to appear, to create. To constantly create?

Take a look. Where does it all come from?

Hey Delma,

I'm not even sure if I'm in the hard place. It feels like I'm back at square one. Haven't seen a thing.

This process has let me clear up a lot of things, looking at what's seen instead of trying to see something that fits some beliefs. I threw away a lot of notes that now seem silly. Yes, it's nuts how all this is ignored. Awareness, aliveness, all these sensations. But right now it's like I need to force myself to notice still. Other moments it's all just boring old life, getting caught up in silly things. It should be beyond obvious.

Glad you mention UG, he always made the most sense. Again, it's right there. The voice making all the problems is coming out of nowhere. The feeling of the self is just a confusion. Everything else is simple. Why, if the whole entire universe got to this point with all this amazing elegance and complexity without me, is it so hard to believe that me is also not needed for this tiny bit extra. What does the me do according to the me? Find fitting jeans? Fill out tax forms? Have a beer preference? It's like I'm in my seat in the theater, and I'm being asked to sit somewhere else, but can't see any other seat.

Not sure what else to say today, nor to the questions you put forward. Where does it all come from? It just is, and continues. No idea what this is, but maybe I should just say thank you and enjoy. Feel like I'm not ready for that though. Hope this yet another ranting message conveys a bit where I'm at.

Recap.

Still very focused on the wrong things. On pushing the right buttons to get the desired experience.

Thought makes claims, claims that feel real. Look outside of thought to confirm correct claims and disprove false claims.

Jed McKenna says start with any thought. Liberation Unleashed says start with the self thought. See through the self, and other beliefs will have nothing to stick to.

Focus. No use doing things that don't help.

You are working your way through. And you're right. You're looking for an experience.

Waking up is a complete let down for the me. Is that why you feel like you're at the beginning? Do you feel let down?

Not sure if that's the reason. Maybe it is. There's definitely more of a realization that there isn't a prize waiting. I always thought I understood this, and then I sit here staring at nothing waiting for something akin to a brain orgasm, haha. There's the feeling of futility. If all the actions seem to be motivated by self, and the goal is set by self, doesn't this mean this is doomed to fail. Like a catch 22.

Or maybe the self's just inventing a story (well not really, but you know what I mean), while something else is listening and other forces are bringing about this change. You know, like those split brain experiments. They tell only the right brain to get up and leave the room, patient gets up, and when they ask him why he's getting up, the left brain answers "I'm thirsty, I was going to go get a soda". Truth is: message was conveyed in language that has meaning to the brain, the body complies with an activity, the story of the self is added later. Whatever flow of life events caused this body to start doing certain things and thoughts to arise and hands to start typing messages on message boards, and the narrative about decisions and techniques and realizations is just one of the things happening.

The decision to throw up arms is futile as well. The self's not involved, there's no decisions. So the self is just going to sit there, in the babyseat in the back, screaming and squirming, until the car gets to where it needs to be. And then, I don't know, the baby dies or something. Who knows.

Sorry for the recaps. It's just really difficult to grasp how simple it is. Or rather, how much thought does, how much is belief. And as soon is the simplicity is thought to have been seen, the thought machine just starts piling on and piling on. Theories and meaning and complexities and methods and rules. Can't clean up or stop this flow of rubbish. Just got to see it as rubbish and move on.

This can't be done by me, this can't be wanted. But something's happening, right?

Thoughts are about things. Beliefs are thoughts that are felt as true. Beliefs can't be confirmed or denied with thought, because they are thought. If anything other than thought confirms the belief, it's ok. But that's really not a whole lot!

Just the simple case of "the laptop is real" even. It can be attacked with thought, by pulling up philosophies about perception, thoughts about objective reality, how I'm an animal that sees color but color's just photons hitting the eye and bla bla bla, so can't confirm the laptop is there, because... the matrix, dude. All just more thought.

OR! Take the thought away, does anything remain? Well, there's something. There's an appearance of a color, shades, glowing. Is it a real object in the real world? Even that's concepts again. Why does it need to be classified? Why can't it just be, and the answer being "fuck if I know"?

And that's about something that is seemingly confirmed by something other than thought! Definitely not the whole thought is confirmed! What about a few steps up the insanity ladder, the self, which can't even be imagined. What's the self? What does it look like? Where is it? The belief is there that it exists without a clue what the answers are to all those questions.

Starting to get 'no belief is true'. Beliefs are thoughts. And alllll the misery in the world comes from trying to shoehorn thoughts into reality. Yes, thoughts can maybe be useful? To find bread and know how to complete the transaction so you can eat it? But there's an uncrossable gap between content of thought and reality. Just. Be. Okay. With. Not knowing. Not understanding. Not classifying. Not manipulating. Not controlling. Just looking like a child, curious, amazed. Not because the idea was seen on a bumper sticker, but because that's all that can be done.

All these distractions. Even thoughts like "isn't this message getting a little long?", "shouldn't you start working?". This is what has always bothered me about people. People can talk about ongoing pandemics and climate change and their all powerful god and being on a planet in an infinite universe, which all should be "holy shit what the fuck" levels of insights, and they discuss them over a sandwich like they're talking about train schedules. It's so obvious that these so called beliefs aren't actually believed, or rather, their seriousness isn't seen. This is what "I" am doing. Yes, Delma, of course there's no me and my whole life story is only imaginary, anyway, got to go to the shop, talk later.

It's unsettling how not-unsettled I am, haha. And maybe that's why I feel like I'm at the beginning.

God, Delma, you're a saint for putting up with this.

Hi Eli,

Thank you for writing that out. I've read it three times so far, looking for the thread. And actually, I'm not sure I understand where you are, BUT. Let's distill this again because it seems you are trying to reason it out. That's fine because it's how we approach the world, but I can't let you get too much farther because thought just kind of takes over these spirals. Y'know how that goes. Yeah.

Take a step back to see this—> If there is no self, then why does any angst matter except within the context of the story about the self? I mean, seriously sit with that right there.

I get the feeling we may need to move to another topic to put this self thing into context. Because waking up is about a whole lot more than seeing there's no you (as I'm sure you've surmised).

What do you say? Would you like to take a look at something new or would you like to stick with this for a bit?

Delma

This seems relevant.

How are you doing?

https://medium.com/tranquillitys-secret ... 206e02b811

Hey Delma. Sorry for going off the grid for a bit. I've been able to sit down for the first time in several days now. Things have been busy. Not forgetting about this

Thank you for the article. It is indeed very relevant.

Let's distill this again because it seems you are trying to reason it out. That's fine because it's how we approach the world, but I can't let you get too much farther because thought just kind of takes over these spirals. Y'know how that goes.

Yes, it's becoming more clear each time. Thinking gets nothing done. It's all about looking at what is, that's when things start clicking. (Didn't you say something about just looking? Hmm).

Finding new levels of assumptions every time. For example the need to associate looking with a solid point in the world, like the eyes, the brain, this person. No matter how much resistance there is or how "illogical" it seems, that has to be let go. Looking, really honestly, as it's presented, as "awareness" or whatever, it's all equally impersonal. It has as much to do with this person here as the living room table over there.

I was reminded of something from watching a Rupert Spira video a while ago, about there being a 'constant'. It's a word that helps sort of look at the constant awareness in all the varying appearances that it comes as. Seems I can't help but sound like it's all reasoning and thought again, but when looking this way, it's just one big appearance. And legs and arms happen to drape down, and thoughts seep in, and it's all as wide open and clear as it can be. Definitely not looking like the inside of a head.

If there is no self, then why does any angst matter except within the context of the story about the self?

Yep... doesn't matter... Makes no difference in the real world

What do you say? Would you like to take a look at something new or would you like to stick with this for a bit?

Yes, I think I would like to look at something new for a while.

Sometimes it's like seeing something one day turns into self pretending to see the next day and a lot of thoughts about it, like a trap. Maybe it's good to change things up.