The Gate

Hi Nic

I wanted to make sure I answered each of your questions.

You asked if resistance begins as a sensation or a thought.

I like the question, and I like the idea of becoming an anthropologist to experience. Just looking to see what's happening and that's it. I've spent the last hour or so looking at this and its' still a bit murky. When I look at resistance and image comes of a a me (younger version) attempting to run away from something. i notice how strongly this is creation of selfing in the moment. This is not at all how it occurs in the moment. It's more of a experience of immediate aversion. Like registering something is hot and trying to pull your hand away. I'm not seeing the thought. I have a sense that liberation might just be right here and it's really something to keep looking at. I will continue to try the pendulation. Just keep looking at whatever arises out of noticing resistance. Then back to awareness.

Best,
Geoff

I can’t find a me to accept the thought or resistance. Maybe it’s thought is not seen as such until it is? Seen not by a self rather simply seen?

Exactly..like all objects of senses, there is simply the awareness of it all.

The thoughts I can allow to simply pass but the contracting sensations stick around sometime for days. There is resistance to these sensations and a noticing of this resistance and as I mentioned I can also also see the thoughts that rise up to deal with this “problem”. There is something I’m not seeing here.

I don't know the ins and outs of the problem, but it may or may not be helped by the gate. It may be that you can go through the gate and see that none of it belongs to or describes, or is perceived by a self, but that there may still be a problem, or a trauma. I wonder if you might be expecting the seeing to resolve it? I had some issues that needed a lot of healing post gate, still do, but it is with so much less suffering attached because it isn't my suffering, it doesn't define me.

Resistance seems to arise with the unpleasant sensation. I’ve been looking at this and still not clear. It seems like bit the thought “I don’t want this” and a sensation of aversion or attempt to move away. It’s like the body wants to move but can’t. I don’t see the words “no- I don’t want this” but the resistance itself is a great example of the spontaneous creation of a self. Who doesn’t want this? Can’t be found. Yet it persists.

And again, this may be beyond this enquiry. Actually aversion is like craving - it is a movement to or away from what is arising, and there are a lot of people who follow the fetter model of the buddha, where self is the first fetter, and craving and aversion have a latter enquiry which you can follow up. However, the main thing about it is that craving and resistance are also actually just thought. Yes often there seems to be a physical component, but there is nothing in the bare sensation that requires us to act or change it, that only happens in thought. We won't be going into that here, but that is a quick pointer in case it is helpful.

As long as it is clear that there is nobody craving or resisting, then we are good for the self enquiry :)

I like the idea of becoming an anthropologist to experience. Just looking to see what's happening

Yes nice :) You are a good one as well, you are doing some really fantastic looking.

this is creation of selfing in the moment.

Yes, and in the moment, in openness, no selfing arises. In thought and analysis, or in stringing together memory thoughts, selfing arises.

I am happy for you to keep doing what you are doing, but since you asked for something to try in nature:


Go out into nature and spend some time watching the movement of the whole. See how clouds move, trees swing, leaves wiggle, grass moves, insects, birds - all move all the time.

Then move focus to sensations and see how they too are in constant motion, thoughts come and go, sounds, colours, sensations come and go.

Notice that everything is part of one movement.

Then close your eyes and see if there is a line between you and out there, between you and life itself. If yes, where is the boundary?
Is there an inside and an outside of Life?
Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?
Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance?
Is witnessing part of the one movement too?
Is there anything which is not just happening?

Go out, come back and tell me what you found.


Enjoy it, and you can keep coming back to that openness at any time - it is literally just an opening away :)


Nic

HI Nic,

You asked some interesting and penetrating questions here. I"m on a plane and have some time to answer.

I'm glad you brought up the gate and expectations, as maybe mine need to be refined. My main expectation is simply to see the Truth as it is. I also have an expectation that the resistance (or craving) to arising experience will fall away to a great degree as there is no longer a self which is threatened by arising sensations or emotions. Is this not accurate? The third expectation is that there will be more and more moments of experiencing life as it is= a non personal flow. I"m down with the healing before or after the gate. . I don't want to run from avoid, or fight my experience anymore. I say that but there is still much resistance but that's ok. IF Allowing resistance seems to be the order of the day so be it.

My issue is that in my case I"m concerned the resistance is where the "me' hangs out. Who or what is so threatened by a sensation and thought? It smells like the "I".

I do get glimpses that my issues are not personal. Was there a "me" that decided to freeze or build a false belief? Or did the bodymind just simply respond? Ooh would I love to see this more clearly! I have physical issues from wrestling and jujitsu but so what, none of that personal. There is no suffering there. No resistance. What you wrote was powerful. The "issues" don't define you. There isn't a you to define. I love the sound of that Nic. It's what I"m looking for.

So I wonder if I am yet clear that there is no one resisting? Is resisting not an I thought? I"m happy to move on and just keep looking at this. Since there is reaction and holding there it's feels like a clue.

I will stay on this. I think Rumi wrote something about keep looking at the cracks, that is where the light is. I have what to look at :o). That's fine.

Best,
Geoff
ps. Love the exercise. Nature is like the fingerprint of Truth, Of The Divine. So much intelligence manifesting without a thinker or doer. Trees express delicate perfection, animals move effortlessly and brilliantly- they know just where to place every step without a thought. Ah, the dance of nature. I look forward to doing the exercise multiple times!

Hi,

Yes the expectations aren't necessarily inaccurate, but any expectation can be a hindrance.

My issue is that in my case I"m concerned the resistance is where the "me' hangs out. Who or what is so threatened by a sensation and thought? It smells like the "I".

Yes so can you find it? When the sense of threat comes, can someone who is threatened be found?

So I wonder if I am yet clear that there is no one resisting? Is resisting not an I thought? I"m happy to move on and just keep looking at this. Since there is reaction and holding there it's feels like a clue.

Reactions may continue, but it will be clear nobody is reacting. Just like with raising the hands, or walking in nature, no entity doing what is done may be found. Is that clearer?

Is the resistance an I thought?
Can you give an example?
When it happens, look and see - is there anyone resisting in DE?
Can the thought be said to be an I thought?
Can any thought be said to be an I thought?

I look forward to hearing about your walks and looking,

Best wishes,

Nic

Hi Nic,
Sorry about he lag. I was traveling internationally.

Yes so can you find it? When the sense of threat comes, can someone who is threatened be found?

No. I can't find someone who is threatened. I do find many thoughts about the need to "fix" this problem. These thoughts start with "I". It's like a fixation, but there is no one to get fixated. I still don't see how a thought can be believed or not believed, identified with or not identified with. From what I can see it's just that fixation or identification happens. Wow is it strong.
Example.

Resistance is not an I thought. It's looks like a feeling of aversion. I really don't know. The visibility is not great on this one.
IF there was a thougth it would be "no! not this". It's crazy Nic, i experience resistance a lot so it should be kind of simple to see what it actually is, what actualy is happening. I SO would like to turn that which allows all of it, including resistance.

You asked or an example. A sensation of contraction occurs. Then simultaneously wiht the knowing of this sensation is a sense of dread or "oh no", though the thoughts are not seen rather this feeling of aversion. I get the sense that is is very important to keep looking directly at as there is great freedom just on the other side of this immediate reaction. It's honestly so humbling. Like i'm staring right at something but not seeing it.

An i thought i like any other thought. It simply has the content of I in it or the assumption of I in it. As I mentioned i'm still looking to see mechanism actually "believes" one thought verses another. Is it another thought?

The good news is that i am having more of a sense that this is just a loop of thought/feeling. Resistance is trying to solve a problem that's not a problem. What is threatening about an uncomfortable sensation? what is actually dangerous about it that it needs to be resisted? Why are some sensations resisted and others aren't?

The walk was beautiful. glimpes of being inseperateble from life. The iris of the eye is as impersonally beautiful as the tree.

No inside and outside of life. Thought, which is part of the same flow, creates a false picture of separation.

I"m not sure if witnessing is part of the one movement. I know that is the "right" answer, but i"m not seeing it yet. Witnessing seems "before" the movement of life, or withing what the movement of life takes place. I need to spend some more time with this.

Thanks Nic,
Geoff

HI,

Sorry for the delay!

No. I can't find someone who is threatened. I do find many thoughts about the need to "fix" this problem. These thoughts start with "I". It's like a fixation, but there is no one to get fixated. I still don't see how a thought can be believed or not believed, identified with or not identified with. From what I can see it's just that fixation or identification happens. Wow is it strong.

This is great looking, so can a thought disturb us?
If so how?
A better way of asking this might be; is there anything about a thought that should be able to change our mood?

Resistance is not an I thought. It's looks like a feeling of aversion. I really don't know. The visibility is not great on this one.
IF there was a thougth it would be "no! not this". It's crazy Nic, i experience resistance a lot so it should be kind of simple to see what it actually is, what actualy is happening. I SO would like to turn that which allows all of it, including resistance.

Some resistance or fear is natural, and preferences are natural, but we can definitely work with the resistance or fear that arises as thought, but as I said that it beyond this enquiry and I can show you where to look for more on that at the end.
The key is, it isn't an I thought, and so are any thoughts 'I' thoughts?
Does any thought prove the existence of an I?
If the self is not a thought, where then is it?

The walk was beautiful. glimpes of being inseperateble from life. The iris of the eye is as impersonally beautiful as the tree.

No inside and outside of life. Thought, which is part of the same flow, creates a false picture of separation.

I"m not sure if witnessing is part of the one movement. I know that is the "right" answer, but i"m not seeing it yet. Witnessing seems "before" the movement of life, or withing what the movement of life takes place. I need to spend some more time with this.

Yes, keep looking at this, the non-separation, the beauty - I find that the more this awareness is appreciated and enjoyed, the more it is clear and the deeper it becomes. There is this, and then there is thought and the ways it takes us out of this experience. Yes ultimately thought is not separate but for a while it might be useful to have a sense of duality with thought and awareness or experience, because you can step from one to the other at any moment and this is useful in opening an expanding the experience of awareness. (This is not guiding but a technique I have found useful since LU - you can kind of release thought into awareness, and let its energy feed the energy of awareness (If you see thought as energy, then unchecked that energy will flow into more thought, but if released, it can energise pure awareness. Following on from this, I found that the more resistance, emotion, craving, or story that is in the thought, the more energy is available to brighten awareness with. If you practice this, it gets easier, and awareness becomes more dominant in your experience than thoughts)

Of course, this again is moving into the territory beyond this self enquiry, so I am wondering what is left to point to regarding the self. How do you feel about the self aspect of it?

Witnessing - yes it seems as if witnessing happens, but can you find the witness separate to the movement of life?
Refer to the seeing exercise, where you saw that you cant find the seer of the seen..it is the same here :)
It is like they are two sides, until you see they are one arising with no separation.
The only question we are concerned with right now, is does that in any way still imply or lead to an assumption or illusion of a separate self?

best wishes

NIc

PS I am going on a long shift at work tomorrow and then straight from work to a retreat week on Monday evening. I hope to continue the guidance while on retreat but it may be difficult as it will probably be quite intense! If it isn't going to be possible to reply I will write and let you know :) In the mean time, you have all the tools and knowledge you need, as all you have to do is look into DE and see that this self thing isn't there!! :)

HI Nic,
Apologies. I am abroad and heading back home as one of my parents took a fall and broke their hip.

so can a thought disturb us?
If so how?
A better way of asking this might be; is there anything about a thought that should be able to change our mood?

How can thought disturb us? I still have yet to see how a thought actually gets identified with or believed. What identifies with thought? There is nothing inherent in a thought that could make us feel a certain way. It's words or an image. So how is that this thought is believed I don't see anything or anyone believing. I'm stumped Nic.

An I thought is simply like any other thought but with an explicit or assumed I as the subject. It certainly doesn't prove the existence of an I in any way. If the self is not a thought (or a collection of thoughts) then it's nothing. i"m still confused about the mechanics of how these thoughts are identified with or believed. Can a thought identify with thought? Awareness doesn't identify with anything from what I can see.

Thanks for sharing that exercise. I look forward to trying it.
At this point, the only times when I see beyond the separate illusion of a self is when I"m actively in looking or meditation.
Maybe I need more diligence and discipline and look on an hourly basis or something. I"m definitely much further along than when i started. I can click into experiencing no inside or outside from a sensation point of view but it takes a fair amount of focus. Nic, i truly want to accept everything that arises, pleasant or unpleasant.

Enjoy your retreat and any guidance during this week would be appreciated.

Geoff

Nic,
I was just doing some more looking and it occured to me that emotion often arises simultaneously with the thought.
This give the impression that the thought is real as the emotional experience of the thougth is felt in the body. Maybe this creates the "identification". So if I had a thought arise "that's unfair!' and there was no corresponding feeling of anger, The thought is more "empty" but if there is a strong reaction of anger, it makes the content of the thought appear quite believable. let me know if i'm on the right track.

Thanks
Geoff

Hi Geoff,

How’s it unfolding? All sounds like it’s progressing from your posts?

I can’t get signal here very easily so I’m just in a break sneaking out to reply 😁

The outside inside thing will become really clear, you just have to look for the separation, of the division between seer and seen. Every time you see it’s not there it’s a blow to the shell of the illusion, whether through sight sound taste, or sensation.

Same with thought and identification, what or who can own or identify? Thought can be free to be as it is, arising and passing, free to not weave stories..

Again the emotion and thoughts, keep looking at the link between them but also mainly here at the question as to whether or not a self exists..is there an I thinking and feeling? Do they belong to someone? That’s all we need to see here.

Best wishes and I’ll try to keep track of any replies..

Nic :)

Hi Nic,

Thanks for checking in. Hope you are enjoying your retreat!

Feels like i've lost some momentum.

I'll keep looking, chipping away at the conditioned concept that there is a seer, controller. etc. Right now the recognition or realization feels a bit distant. There are a few moments every day when something is seen. A glimpse here and there that it's just sensations and thought arising, that there is no controller or decider. Most of the time there is all this selfing going on. It's frustrating to know on one level that it's all not true. None of it. Yet it's being still identified with. I do know enough to know that frustration is just a passing reaction.

I"m still a little stuck on the identification. How does that happen if it's just thought? You asked how a thought can change our mood. It seems like it changes our mood when it gets identified with. But what is identifying?

In any case I"ll keep looking.

Best
Geoff

Hi Geoff,

Yes sorry we lost momentum while I was away, but I am back now :)

Most of the time there is all this selfing going on. It's frustrating to know on one level that it's all not true. None of it. Yet it's being still identified with.

Can you say a bit more? What is happening when there is selfing, exactly?

I"m still a little stuck on the identification. How does that happen if it's just thought? You asked how a thought can change our mood. It seems like it changes our mood when it gets identified with. But what is identifying?

I have to turn the question around and ask you to look and see what you find, sorry, me giving answers will not hope you see, only the looking itself.

How is a thought identified with? I would like you to look and see what is identifying, or rather, if you can find anything in DE other than another thought?
Is there a thinker of a thought to be found?
Is there a sense of owning thoughts?
If so, how does that happen?

Just look, try not to worry or be frustrated!

Best wishes,

Nic

Hi Nic,

No problem. i"m grateful for your guidance. I would like to make a request though. Would it be possible to increase the exercises/rigor? I want to look multiple times throughout the day the exercises we did a few weeks back seemed to help a lot.

Selfing is all the thinking i have during the day with "i" as the subject. I catch it sometimes. Mostly I only seem to key into the reality of awareness when I'm actively looking. Selfing is also the resistance and arising thoughts that are trying to "fix" the contracting sensations. I do ask often, "Who are these sensations arising to?" And try to not force an intellectual answer.

How is a thought identified with? I would like you to look and see what is identifying, or rather, if you can find anything in DE other than another thought?
Is there a thinker of a thought to be found?
Is there a sense of owning thoughts?
If so, how does that happen?

I don't know how thought is identified with. There is nothing in DE other than more thought. I don't see anything that takes the content of a thought and boom! makes it come alive as sensation in the body. It doesn't make sense that an image or sentence from one thought can bring an image or sentence from another thought alive as an emotional experience. it's mysterious.

There is not thinker of thoughts to be found . Just thoughts arising.

I am noticing there is a sense of owning thoughts That have I as the subject. Not sure why but that looks to be what is happening. However just because I is in a thought doesn't make it any different than any other thought. I don't how that happens, but I would like it not to :). If I had to guess it would be conditioning or habit but in DE there is no conditioning or habit. This is humbling Nic.

Looking forward to hearing back!
Best,
Geoff

Hi Geoff,

I will do my best, and give you exercises - they may be repetitive but I will try to mould them to fit what you are describing. It seems to be all about the thought and the labelling of thought with more thought.

Selfing is all the thinking i have during the day with "i" as the subject. I catch it sometimes. Mostly I only seem to key into the reality of awareness when I'm actively looking.

You do see when you are looking - so what does that tell you? when you are looking, do you find that the thinking mind quietens down?
Is this awareness not always present?
Sure it may be obscured, but opening into it is now familiar like a neural pathway no? So yes, we need to get you actively looking regularly.

Is there a way you can look at regular intervals during the day, maybe set a timer or alarm so you can take a short pause just to look into sensing and identification, or thinking and identification? You could try this as it is about labelling:

Get a sheet of paper and draw a line that divides that sheet in half. Label one half 'self' and the other side 'other'. Sit down and start a timer for 5 minutes. Every time you have a thought make a mark on the sheet. If that thought is about the self put a mark on the self side, if it’s about something else, mark the other side. If a thought about food occurs due to feeling hungry, mark that on the self side. Any thought that refers back to a self should go on the self side. (I'm bored, I'm tired, is the door locked (my safety) that video was funny (I was amused), my back hurts, I am frightened) get it?

Let me know how you go and what you notice.

If you want to develop that further, when you have the self thought, have a look to see whether the thoughts actually describe a separate self. So 'My back hurts' can be there is pain in the back. I am hungry, is hunger is arising. This might help you to see that it all can happen and arise without there being an identification.

Selfing is also the resistance and arising thoughts that are trying to "fix" the contracting sensations.

And try this - reframe this to be that there are contracting sensations, and there are thoughts arising - not I, not me. Who needs to fix them? Can you find a resister or a fixer?
Remember the sensations exercise - where we look for someone experiencing the sensations, or a self to whom they belong?
I hope these are helpful,

Nic

This is terrific Nic. Thank you. I"ll get on it today and revert back!

Thanks brother!
Geoff

You’re absolutely welcome brother 🙏