The Gate

Hello MN,

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

Why do you use the qualifier “separate”?
I really don’t know this – experientially.
The illusion starts when "I" think about it
I think/speculate that self view it is a habit that is leaned

This whole process is about realising there is no separate self, there is no MN, so of course that is going to be the qualifier! I want to know if you have actually had the realisation or not and these questions will show me that.

It appears you have thrown me in at the deep end – lots of processing and looking are taking place. Tantalizing and intriguing at time and scary at others – even more content / story
Defo work in progress. Big jump from the exercises to this.

All the questions asked were based on what we have explored together throughout your thread. There were no curved balls thrown. I suggest you once again reread your entire thread and redo the exercises.

Can you categorically say with 100% assurance that there is no MNself, that there is no separate 'you'?

Love, Kay

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

No, No

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

The sensations arising are actually happening in AE but the label “feeling of self in the body” is AE of thought.
The thoughts of “separate self” are real, they unquestionably arise. However, their contents what they say “me, mine, I” are just fantasies. The label MNself is AC of thought.
Similarly memories of personal biography are not actually happening only AE of thought.
When looking at actual experience of colour, sound, smell, sensations taste and plain noticing of thoughts as like “that”, no MNself is to be found

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

To see this feels clean and straight forward and appropriate.
The main difference is not trying to think my way into things or to develop special qualities.

Well what a fuss this all is! Nothing has changed!

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Had a sleepless night– reflecting upon the ideas of isolation and the solitary nature of death. (Probable in response to: recent berievemt, life changing ill health and uncertainty about the future of a long standing relationship)
There was strong emotion, fear and struggle to do something about isolation. It was desperation that caused me to give up the struggle and to allow the thought to think and the fear and restlessness to become simply more experience. It was no option other than to see it all as thinking without axis. Sensations were directly experienced as they were. The label “horrified anxiety” was experienced as thought. Thoughts of MNself were seen as thoughts. MN did not have to be in the picture, nor did MN look. No witnesser only AE of thought labelled “me looking”

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.

Thoughts arise spontaneously and unbidden and in no organised sequence
Some thoughts point to AE other thoughts point to further thoughts which are a story of “decision, intention, free will, choice and control”
Decision/volition to do something certain way can not be seen when looked at.
Could it just possibly be that the choice just happens and there is no chooser deciding upon a choice.

b) What makes things happen? How does it work?

There are plenty of things happening. There is no one making them happen – thy are fine!

c) What are you responsible for?

I am not

d) Give examples from experience.

Given that “me, mine, I” is illusory and there is simply experience itself which thought labels as sound, colour, sensation, smell and thought etc
I am trying to look at the experience of planning to fix a roller blind,
This is a blind alley the actual experience of planning and deciding to change the blind is pure story story. If I said to you “I will change the at 3”, Neither decider nor point of decision can be actually be found.

6) Anything to add?

No I have been looking at this for days now and 3 hours at this session. A response to question six might well arise this afternoon when I return from fixing the blind. My goodness who is responsible for wat happened there as I typed the last sentence?
You have been very patient and thanks for refocusing me on the thread.

6) Anything to add?

As I was moving about my business today I noticed that those “outside” things were less separate and simpler. There was no need to see them in relation to MNself. No requirement to like or dislike since there was no choice.
I say less separate because the not separate thing became thinking later. Just the rolling on of things in flux

Can you categorically say with 100% assurance that there is no MNself, that there is no separate 'you'

Yes
Nest MN

Hello MN,

Lovely responses to the questions – thank you for looking at them again :)

You have been very patient and thanks for refocusing me on the thread.

You are most welcome :)

c) What are you responsible for?

I am not

Just for clarity sake - What “I” are you referring to when you say “I am not”? Where is this “I” exactly?

Can you categorically say with 100% assurance that there is no MNself, that there is no separate 'you'

Yes

Wonderful! :)

What I am going to do now if ask other guides to have a look at our thread to make sure that I have covered everything and that my pointing has been clear, therefore you are clear about there being no self. They may or may not have further questions for you. I will let you know as soon as I have heard back.

Love, Kay

hi sue

Just for clarity sake - What “I” are you referring to when you say “I am not”? Where is this “I” exactly?

was playing with words
niether "I" nor responsivle
"I" am not
There is no responible agent
was not refering to MNself. there is no responsibility when there is choice only change.
looking forward to hearing
Best MN

Hi MN,

You two timing me MN? ;) Who is Sue? (smiling)

A guide has asked me to ask you the following which relates to Q2.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

The sensations arising are actually happening in AE but the label “feeling of self in the body” is AE of thought.
The thoughts of “separate self” are real, they unquestionably arise. However, their contents what they say “me, mine, I” are just fantasies. The label MNself is AC of thought.
Similarly memories of personal biography are not actually happening only AE of thought.
When looking at actual experience of colour, sound, smell, sensations taste and plain noticing of thoughts as like “that”, no MNself is to be found

Would you ask MN to answer the second question of the final questions again, without using the words AE, AC, and MNself?

Love, Kay

Hi Kay
Well yesterday was interesting!
Early in the day lots of energy, helped friends pack prior to moving to a new house, they were fractious and tense. It was straight forward not to take a position nor sort them out. Later met a pal for snack before class at GBC, it was a lovely meeting light and smiley no need for advise or making a big deal. Then class rolled along in same way, I meditated for a short time and it was bright and appreciative. The little bit of chanting was energetics and highly collective.
Had strangely turbulent night strong dreams of death and easily submitting to a lethal injection but woke up suddenly surprised by fear as I kicked away the injector character? This a.m. I had strong resistance to writing this response – got easier as it happened.

) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Hi Kay

The illusion of separate self is a thought which points to more thoughts. These further thoughts are the illusion or story that there is “me, mine, I” who is the knower or owner of thoughts and feeling. Thougt are taken as a thing.

An example of how this works is when dread or resistance arises in response to the fear of lack of control, there is no looker at it when examined.
It is simpler than that it is a sensation that is being felt.
There is no director only thoughts of direction, no examiner to be found. No here or there. No this or that. No starter or stopper.
No point of view only view
The thoughts and feelings roll on with nothing to notice or to know. It is process like boiling soup. Lots oif movement
I have read about child development and how environmental factor cause the child to develop edges and act as if there was an outside requiring to be controlled and defended against? This is a story.
In my own experience it is tricky to explain but the illusion of separateness causes “thingness” and contraction. Life rolls on naturally without effort. There is thinking and sometimes thoughts of “me, mine, I” are part of the process. Its uncontrived.

Hi MN,

Congratulations, and welcome through the Gateless Gate. There are no further questions for you. It has been a pleasure to walk this 'journey' with you and point the way. Thank you for being so open and willing to LOOK!

Keep an eye out for an email notification from the forum about a PM (private message) inviting you to join our Aftercare group on Facebook. The PM also details other resources available to you. Your name will change from green to blue on the forum, which indicates that you have had the realisation of there being no separate self.

You can contact me at any time if you have any questions etc, via the forums PM system, or via Facebook if you decide to join our groups there.

Love, Kay

Hi Kay
Keep up the good work!
Movements always happend afer you refoccused me to gut the shit.
You were very tolesrant. With me being adnitted to hospitas before gouing oh holiday anduring I was sufferunf from a recent bereavement when we started with all the associated planning ect - this all forced me to working on the hoof and unabel to keep the flow - you are patient.

I still have no bopgraphical detain - age, location , how long have you bben doing the malarky

Hi MN,

I enjoy guiding and have been a guide at LU since 2015. I look forward to connecting with you on Facebook.

Love, Kay